Australian Politics Forum - U.S. broke in denial

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #15 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:09pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:40am:

Trump will only make things much worse. A populist with no detailed policies, a neocon etc.

$US20Trn will look small compared to the debt Donald will leave.

so what has POLICIES done for everyone monk??

you all rave on about POLCIES>.. just where have they all got us???

thats right WE ARE ALL OVER OUR HEADS IN DEBT..

every bloody country that runs on POLICIES>. Angry

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101831	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #16 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm Rack one up for poor Cods. Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES. How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?
Back to top	IP Logged

Unforgiven

Gold Member

Offline

I have sinned

Posts: 8879
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #17 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:08am

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support

The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing

Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese

It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

The first thing Trump is going to do is spend $20+ billion on the wall, many billions on capture and detention of illegal aliens, and finally, he will reduce taxes for his mates which will drive the budget deficit deeper into the red.

USA is Trumped.

Back to top

“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan

IP Logged

Richdude

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 8457
NC
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #18 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:45am

red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am:

The United States is flat broke, they are in the hole for almost 20 trillion dollars. China owns their sorry arse with mega loans to keep the Country that is practically on life support

The U.S. needed someone with vision and the determination to carry it through, no matter how loud the protests and whingeing

Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese

It is about time the American Public 'got real' and started supporting their President. He is the only hope their sorry arses have got

Good post Red but lets get specific.
The debt is in US bonds that China holds because of the trade imbalance. That debt must be honored.

However the majority of that 20 trillion is to the BIS which could and should be written off. Iceland wrote off their debt and put the bankers in jail. Iceland has been doing very well since. Use the Icelandic template Donald.

Back to top

The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”

IP Logged

Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14722 Colorado Gender:	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #19 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:27am red baron wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:34am: Donald Trump can turn America around, a litany of former Presidents carried out the only thing they knew how to do..borrow more and more from the Chinese Russia borrows money from the Chinese? You should get up off your knees you filthy hippie.
Back to top	I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 118614
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #20 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:29am

Everyone has forgotten about quantitative easing -

that's right - printing money - shiploads of money.

The Yanks printed shiploads of money & unlike every other country that has tried it
they didn't get hyper inflation.
Their dollar is still strong.
Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt.

Back to top

IP Logged

Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14722 Colorado Gender:	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #21 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:49am Bobby. wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:29am: Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt. Please do shut the f-k up, Blooby. You have zero clue as to how a GDP-based economy functions.
Back to top	I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 118614
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #22 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:57am

Marla wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:49am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:29am:

Therefore the Yanks can just getaway with printing money to pay their $20 trillion of debt.

Please do shut the f-k up, Bobby. You have zero clue as to how a GDP-based economy functions.

Marla the pot head,
Take your foul mouth elsewhere.
I got straight to the point.

Look at what happened to Zimbabwe when they printed money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe

Back to top

IP Logged

Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6384 Australia Gender:	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #23 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 8:04am Bobby, do you really think Marlon actually knows where Zimbabwe is?
Back to top	Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!" IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 118614 Melbourne Gender:	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #24 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 8:05am Fuzzball wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 8:04am: Bobby, do you really think Marlon actually knows where Zimbabwe is? I forgot - Yanks are poor at geography.
Back to top	IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11891
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #25 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:19am

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Rack one up for poor Cods.

Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES.

How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash....

The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself.

Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......

Presto!

Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides.

Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:50am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101831

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #26 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 11:02am

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:19am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Rack one up for poor Cods.

Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES.

How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash....

The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself.

Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......

https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto!

Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides.

Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens, Panther. It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia. China actually kept the US solvent through the GFC.

Mr Trump now plans to cut taxes by nearly half and has billions, if not trillions, in infrastructure plans. He also plans to cut Obmacare, which will raise the budgets of the states through Medicaid - a massive cost, and one that could bankrupt a number of states in projected health spending.

Now that Red's opened Mr Trump's economic plans up for debate, let's discuss them. This is very refreshing - every time I've raised this issue, posters run. Threads die.

Let's make sure that doesn't happen here. Let's flesh this one out.

Mr Trump plans to lower revenue and increase spending. How will this make Amerika great again?

Back to top

IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11891
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #27 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:21pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:19am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Rack one up for poor Cods.

Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES.

How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash....

The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself.

Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......

https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto!

Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides.

Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......

It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

Really......

Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing.

Where did you find that the US doesn't sell Bonds to it's Citizens anymore.....as it always used to do?

The Second World War was almost totally financed with U.S. War & Savings Bonds.

When did the U.S. Government eliminate it's very best borrowing income stream instrument
to offset debt?..... the U.S. Savings Bond (link)
?

Pssssst......if you need help let me know, I'll help you find the correct answers so you can stop embarrassing yourself, you just have to promise not to share the sources with the other assholes that can continue embarrassing themselves.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:57pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11891
Gender: male

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #28 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:16pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 9:19am:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Rack one up for poor Cods.

Another one who doesn't want to talk about POLICIES.

How about you, Red? How's Mr Trump going to pay off China?

The USA owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to China.........Now, China owes about 1 Trillion Dollars to America in World War II Debt (actual loans plus interest since the 1940's) ......... I'd call that a wash....

The other give or take 19 Trillion Dollars in US Debt is owed to a combination of private US investors (Americans), & the government itself.

Every time the USA needs a cash transfusion it sells Bonds to America (the People), & it writes I.O.U.s to itself .... then prints more currency (funny money) to cover those I.O.U.s .......

https://i.imgsafe.org/0a88368.gif Presto!

Eventually, it will all come crumbling down because it can't continue to sustain itself forever ........ & when it does, we will be right on its heals because our economy, & most of the world's economy, is tied to the US economy. Talk about lefties going insane......imagine their shock when the Socialists go to the money well, & it's all dried up......No more free money.....Uncle Sam has screwed the pooch for good, & the only way out is to work hard & rebuild.......No more free rides.

Everyone borrows in the hopes of creating wealth.....The farmer borrows to buy the seeds to plant.....the manufacturer borrows to buy the raw materials he needs to make stuff to sell.......the service industry (retail & foods) need farmers & factory workers to serve.....no workers, no one to serve......implosion......again, the only way out will be for every man, woman, & yes child, to pull together & slowly work their way out & rebuild.

Mr Trump plans to lower revenue and increase spending. How will this make Amerika great again?

Well, it's been done before.

President Ronald Reagan did it back in the 80's.

By lowering taxes, it caused an up-turn in business & business started hiring more people. People were back to work, & had more money to spend, & more jobs were created through this cycle.

With millions of more people working, there became more people to pay taxes, & so in the end taxes actually brought in more government income at the lower reduced rates..... Whether Trump can pull that off I really don't know in all honesty, but the theory is tried & true.

It was part & parcel of Supply-Side Economics

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:24pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101831

Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #29 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:50pm

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing.

Oh, I know.

Quote:

The U.S. debt to China is $1.05 trillion, as of November 2016. That's 27.8 percent of the $3.77 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.9 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less than the $1.11 trillion held by Japan. Both countries have reduced their holdings in the past year, but China has reduced it faster.

China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt in November 2013. The reason China is reducing its holdings is to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China has to loosen its peg to the dollar. That makes the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets.

Long-term, China wants the yuan to replace the U.S. dollar as the world's global currency. China is also responding to accusations of manipulation. For more, see Currency Wars.

Before February 2014, China had been strengthening the yuan in response to U.S. pressure. But it reversed course when the dollar rose 25 percent in 2014 and 2015, dragging the yuan with it. China needed to lower the yuan to remain competitive with other emerging markets with free-floating currencies. For more, see Asset Bubble and Yuan to Dollar Conversion.

China has consistently held more than $1 trillion in U.S. debt every year since 2010. That's when the Treasury Department changed how it measures the debt.

Before July 2010, Treasury reports show China held $843 billion in debt. This makes it difficult to make long-term comparisons. (Source: "Major Holdings of U.S. Treasury Securities," Department of the U.S. Treasury, September 6, 2016.)

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Back to top

IP Logged