Australian Politics Forum - Voting

perceptions_now

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Voting - Federal & State
Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 7:31pm

I re-post the following here, as it is relevant!

Re: Economics - Past, Present & Future – Realities!

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 6:01pm:

There is a great deal of information, which is mostly “Missing in Action”, when it comes to decisions being made about our Economic Future!

What are the Past Origins of Our Modern Economy?

Despite what the various Politicians may have said, the Major Basic Movers of our "Modern Economy", particularly over the last 200 years or so, are -
1) Demographics - Population Growth, both Local & Global.
2) Energy - Readily Available & Cheap, until recently.
3) Climate - We have enjoyed a Basically Fairy-tale Global Climate, for quite some time
4) Technology - Has made very significant gains, particularly over the last 200 years or so.

Demographics is certainly "the Most Major Economic Mover", over the Modern Era!
1st Global Billion - 1804
2nd Global Billion - 1927
3rd Global Billion - 1960
4th Global Billion - 1974
5th Global Billion - 1987
6th Global Billion - 1999
7th Global Billion - 2011

It took All of Human history, until around the year 1800, to get our first Billion humans (Globally), but the Human Population Growth since 1800 has been massive.

In fact, PARTICULARLY BETWEEN THE END OF WW2, TO AROUND 2005, OUR “REGULAR & LARGE” GLOBAL POPULATION GROWTH HAS BEEN THE MAJOR FACTOR, UNDERPINNING OUR GLOBAL ECONOMIC GROWTH AND RESTRAINING DEBT, notwithstanding what any Politician may claim &/or say!

The following factors have also been Major Supporters of Both Population & Economic Growth, in the Modern Era -
a) ENERGY SOURCES, which were READILY AVAILABLE & CHEAP.
b) A GLOBAL CLIMATE, which has Basically been in a FAIRYTALE mode, during the Modern Economic era.
C) HUGE TECHNOLOGY GAINS, which have Generally assisted Population & Economic Growth.

That said, EVERYTHING HAS LIMITS and WE ARE NOW FINDING THAT ALL 4 OF THE MAJOR BASIC MOVERS OF OUR LOCAL & GLOBAL ECONOMY ARE FEELING THE EFFECTS OF LIMITATIONS, which are largely human related!

So, where are we at Present?

Well, our Population Growth has actually been slowing, for some time and that is reflected in the Total Fertility Rate –Global Birth Rate (TFR).
Around 1950, the TFR was just under 5, @ 4.97 babies, for each women (the Baby Boomer Generation was underway).
Around 1975, after the Global Baby Boom, the TFR rate was just under 4, at 3.86.
By 2005, the TFR rate was well under 3, at 2.50.

Now, many of the Top Global Economic nations have TFR rates, which are below the natural replacement rate of 2.1.
In 2016 -
Top 10 National GDP Fertility Rate
1) USA 1.8
2) China          1.6
3) Japan          1.5
4) Germany 1.5
5) UK 1.8
6) France          1.9
7) India 2.3
8) Italy 1.4
9)Brazil 1.8
10) Canada          1.6

The following should also be noted –
National GDP Fertility Rate
13) Australia 1.8

This slowing of Fertility rates, to below Replacement levels, coincides with the increasing Retirement & Death rates amongst the massive Baby Boomer generation, plus surging Prices & actual shortages in Global Energy and these were the major reasons for the start of the GFC and that the GFC has continued, between 2007 to 2017, instead of returning to Growth, as would previously have been “Normal”.

You can draw your own conclusions, as to why our Politicians (all of them) & TPTB, have not passed these facts onto the greater Public. The Public are still largely in the dark, to these facts, WHEREAS CERTAINLY THE TOP LEVEL OF POLLIES & TPTB, ARE & MUST BE AWARE, OF WHAT IS GOING ON!

That these facts have not been passed on to the Public, by our Politicians &/or TPTB, can largely be attributable to the Politicians & their “Supporters” looking after their own Short Term interests!

Unfortunately, the Short Term interests of the Politicians & their “Supporters”, has been at the expense of the Best, Long Term interests of the Whole Public, both Local (in OZ) & Globally!

And, highly unfortunately, the POLITICIANS & TPTB, DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ECONOMIC OUTCOMES ARE ALSO LARGELY DEPENDENT ON OUTCOMES BEING “FAIR TO ALL” OR THE OUTCOMES WILL BE “FAIR TO NONE”, AS THE ECONOMY IS DRIVEN LARGELY BY DEMAND, FOLLOWED BY SUPPLY!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #1 - Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 7:42pm

I re-post the following here, as it is relevant!

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2017 at 6:15pm:

Economics - Past, Present & Future – Realities! (Continued)

So, What of our Future – Economics & Other?
As DEMAND IS SET TO DECLINE FOR QUITE SOME TIME & AS DEMAND CONTINUES TO FOLLOW THE MAJOR BASIC ECONOMIC MOVERS, NO MATTER WHAT ALL OF THE POLITICIANS MAY SAY, THERE IS NO CHANCE OF “JOBS & GROWTH”, given current Politics & standard Economics!

Regrettably, the usual “Business Cycles”, which were really more a “greed Cycle”, are now pretty much going the same way as the Baby Boomers, both are into Die off.

So, as this century proceeds, I would see the Global Population go into Decline, finishing the end of this century at around 2-3 Billion, given TFR trends, Baby Boomer Die off & other following changes.

Also, as this century proceeds, use of Fossil Energy will continue to slide, as it becomes more & more obvious that “both human numbers & their use of Fossil fuels have adversely affected our Global Climate, making it impossible to continue to grow our Human Population!

It must also be asked, will TECHNOLOGY GAINS ride over the hill to our rescue?
Well Yes, it is possible? BUT, I would suggest that given what is on the horizon, it is unlikely & I would highly recommend against relying on such actions, particularly given that it is also a two edged sword, with adverse outcomes possible, as well as good outcomes.

So, in short, the rest of this century, will be nothing like the last century. I would also suggest we should have started talking with each other, about these issues & outcomes some 40 years ago, but we did not!

Finally, I must strongly recommend, WE START TALKING WITH EACH OTHER NOW & WE EARNESTLY WORK TOWARDS THE BEST, LONG TERM OUTCOMES FOR ALL OR OUR FUTURE OUTCOMES WILL BE VERY UNLIKELY TO BE GOOD, FOR ANY OF US!

FOR THE SAKE OF OUR OUTCOMES & THOSE OF OUR CHILDREN & GRANDCHILDREN, I EARNESTLY HOPE WE ALL START TAKING THESE ISSUES SERIOUSLY & WE MAKE SURE THE POLITICIANS & TPTB DO THE SAME & THEY DO IT NOW!!!

So, our Politicians, Right, Left & Centre (almost all of them), have for quite some time, NOT ACTED IN THE BEST, LONG TERM INTERESTS, OF THE WHOLE POPULATION!

But primary amongst them, THE SYSTEM LEANS TOWARDS LIBERAL & LABOR BEING IN POWER!

It would now seem, if there is any hope of fixing what our Pollies have messed up, then WE NEED SHOUT OUR MESSAGE AT THOSE IN POWER & THEIR BACKERS!

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

So, at every election, (FEDERAL & STATE), I SAY PUT THE INCUMBENT (Liberal or Labor) LAST!

And, lets VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENT POLLY, BOTH INDIVIDUALLY & THE PARTY, until they all wake up that mean for them, TO START ACTING AGAIN IN OUR BEST INTERESTS, NOT THEIRS!!!

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mantra

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #2 - Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 8:45pm

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 7:42pm:

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

The major parties have the money and influence to create effective scare campaigns against the smaller parties. Occasionally they might have a tiny bit of influence, but generally they are just hanging on so they can make up the numbers for Labor and Liberal. It's not going to change unless we get rid of preferential voting.

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6492 Gender:	Re: Voting - Federal & State Reply #3 - Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 9:25pm get rid of preferential voting No, not going to happen
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Voting - Federal & State Reply #4 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 6:16am Amazing, the paw soal has finally realized the Socialists are trying to destroy Australia.
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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Voting - Federal & State Reply #5 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 10:19am juliar wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 6:16am: Amazing, the paw soal has finally realized the Socialists are trying to destroy Australia. Actually, any unbiased view of Politics would conclude that the Left, Right & Centre of Politics has been & is destroying OZ, but also the Global Economy!
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perceptions_now

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #6 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 10:22am

mantra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 8:45pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2017 at 7:42pm:

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

The major parties have the money and influence to create effective scare campaigns against the smaller parties. Occasionally they might have a tiny bit of influence, but generally they are just hanging on so they can make up the numbers for Labor and Liberal. It's not going to change unless we get rid of preferential voting.

Well certainly, NOTHING IS LIKELY TO CHANGE, UNLESS THE GREAT MAJOR OF THE PUBLIC COME OUT OPENLY AND DEMAND CHANGE!

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cods

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #7 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 10:43am

So, our Politicians, Right, Left & Centre (almost all of them), have for quite some time, NOT ACTED IN THE BEST, LONG TERM INTERESTS, OF THE WHOLE POPULATION!

But primary amongst them, THE SYSTEM LEANS TOWARDS LIBERAL & LABOR BEING IN POWER!

It would now seem, if there is any hope of fixing what our Pollies have messed up, then WE NEED SHOUT OUR MESSAGE AT THOSE IN POWER & THEIR BACKERS!

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

So, at every election, (FEDERAL & STATE), I SAY PUT THE INCUMBENT (Liberal or Labor) LAST!

And, lets VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENT POLLY, BOTH INDIVIDUALLY & THE PARTY, until they all wake up that mean for them, TO START ACTING AGAIN IN OUR BEST INTERESTS, NOT THEIRS!!!

couple of things I disagree with perc..

everything has to pass TWO HOUSES...now the Senate for some time seems to be controlled small insignificant groups little people that get in b ecause 3rd and 4th preferrences.....sorry but they do not speak for me...

but they are the ones running the country..

the main parties.. labs and libs are ham strung mainly libs because those smaller groups are usually made up of angry people ...who like PAYBACK politics.... they are made up usually with the short memory loss crowd... Roll Eyes

vote against what we have two usually strong parties....

I admit they have lost their way a bit..

but seeing what we are seeing not just in OZ...I am not so sure if you got your wish.. you would like what we would end up with..

mostly angry people.. who never ever look at how well off aussies really are..

I bet you live in a fine house perc with all mod cons a nice car maybe even more than one sitting outside....some even brag about boats or motorbikes or fancy holidays... some how that all taken for granted.. somehow it doesnt count when we think about how hard doneby we all are..

I am not saying we shouldnt expect better from those we are meant to trust....

but if you think 3 or 4 years with a bunch of wannabees would fix everything.. Roll Eyes

oh blimey I dont think so...

we need to DEMAND MORE....wee complained and bitc hed and finally they had to do something about pollies expenses.......well we can bitch louder and send more messages to our local members who get very hot under the collar when they feel threatened...

we sit and whinge yet we dont stand up ourselves we bitc h on forums like this and still do nothing..

so its not just the govt members who are at fault..

we the voters are...????

straighten up the voters perc... they are the p[roblem.

oh yes! a yes vote to get rid of preferences will do it as well..

first pass the post will stop a few of the lunatics who run.

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6492 Gender:	Re: Voting - Federal & State Reply #8 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 1:26pm Preferential voting is not the problem. Its the quality of scumbags that all the parties put forward that is the problem.
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perceptions_now

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #9 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 4:37pm

cods wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 10:43am:

So, our Politicians, Right, Left & Centre (almost all of them), have for quite some time, NOT ACTED IN THE BEST, LONG TERM INTERESTS, OF THE WHOLE POPULATION!

But primary amongst them, THE SYSTEM LEANS TOWARDS LIBERAL & LABOR BEING IN POWER!

It would now seem, if there is any hope of fixing what our Pollies have messed up, then WE NEED SHOUT OUR MESSAGE AT THOSE IN POWER & THEIR BACKERS!

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

So, at every election, (FEDERAL & STATE), I SAY PUT THE INCUMBENT (Liberal or Labor) LAST!

And, lets VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENT POLLY, BOTH INDIVIDUALLY & THE PARTY, until they all wake up that mean for them, TO START ACTING AGAIN IN OUR BEST INTERESTS, NOT THEIRS!!!

couple of things I disagree with perc..

everything has to pass TWO HOUSES...now the Senate for some time seems to be controlled small insignificant groups little people that get in b ecause 3rd and 4th preferrences.....sorry but they do not speak for me...

but they are the ones running the country..

the main parties.. labs and libs are ham strung mainly libs because those smaller groups are usually made up of angry people ...who like PAYBACK politics.... they are made up usually with the short memory loss crowd... Roll Eyes

vote against what we have two usually strong parties....

I admit they have lost their way a bit..

but seeing what we are seeing not just in OZ...I am not so sure if you got your wish.. you would like what we would end up with..

mostly angry people.. who never ever look at how well off aussies really are..

I bet you live in a fine house perc with all mod cons a nice car maybe even more than one sitting outside....some even brag about boats or motorbikes or fancy holidays... some how that all taken for granted.. somehow it doesnt count when we think about how hard doneby we all are..

I am not saying we shouldnt expect better from those we are meant to trust....

but if you think 3 or 4 years with a bunch of wannabees would fix everything.. Roll Eyes

oh blimey I dont think so...

we need to DEMAND MORE....wee complained and bitc hed and finally they had to do something about pollies expenses.......well we can bitch louder and send more messages to our local members who get very hot under the collar when they feel threatened...

we sit and whinge yet we dont stand up ourselves we bitc h on forums like this and still do nothing..

so its not just the govt members who are at fault..

we the voters are...????

straighten up the voters perc... they are the p[roblem.

oh yes! a yes vote to get rid of preferences will do it as well..

first pass the post will stop a few of the lunatics who run.

Yes, we do, Cods, A LOT MORE & WE NEED TO START DEMANDING MORE, NOW!!!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #10 - Feb 24^th, 2017 at 4:41pm

miketrees wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 1:26pm:

Preferential voting is not the problem.

Its the quality of scumbags that all the parties put forward that is the problem.

Well, I would agree that what our Pollies are doing & not doing, certainly leaves a lot to be desired, as does Preferential Voting!
But regrettably, there are also many, many other issues that also leave a great deal to be desired!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Voting - Federal & State
Reply #11 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 2:20pm

NOW, it's Labor State Pollies, dipping their BIG SNOUTS, into THE TROUGHS!

The major incentive of "being in Power", is that "Snouts in Troughs" have usually been "somewhat easier AND THAT APPLIES IN ALL AREAS, RANGING FROM LOCAL, TO STATE, TO FEDERAL!

It would now seem, if there is any hope of fixing what our Pollies have messed up, then WE NEED SHOUT OUR MESSAGE AT THOSE IN POWER & THEIR BACKERS!

The only way I can see, that these Pollies will get the message, IS IF WE VOTE THEM OUT!!!

So, at every election, (FEDERAL, STATE & LOCAL), I SAY PUT THE INCUMBENT (Liberal, Labor OR National) LAST!

And, lets VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENT POLLY, BOTH INDIVIDUALLY & THE PARTY, until they all wake up that mean for them, TO START ACTING AGAIN IN OUR BEST INTERESTS, NOT THEIRS!!!

PS - That doesn't mean putting Pauline Hanson's One Nation in anywhere!

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