Australian Politics Forum - Science under attack under Trump

longweekend58

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Science under attack under Trump
Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:42pm

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/donald-trump-reminiscent-of-stalin-says-chief-scientist-alan-finkel-as-science-literally-under-attack/ar-AAmEdEf?ocid=spartandhp

Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel has compared US President Donald Trump's move to censor environmental data with former Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's control of science in the USSR.

Speaking at a Chief Scientists' roundtable discussion at the Australian National University on Monday, Dr Finkel made his comments saying he was "going off topic" as "science is literally under attack".

Dr Finkel said: "The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] must undergo review by political appointees before they can be published."

In the first week of his presidency Mr Trump's administration informed the EPA it could not send out press releases and no blog messages could be published. The EPA was also told "no new content can be placed on any website".

The Chief Scientist told an audience at the ANU's Crawford School of Public Policy that this political control was comparable to Stalin's promotion of Trofim Lysenko's ideas on genetics and evolution in the USSR from the 1920s.

Dr Finkel said: "It is reminiscent of the censorship exerted by political officers in the old Soviet Union. Every military commander there had a political officer second-guessing his decisions.

"Soviet agricultural science was held back for decades because of the ideology of Trofim Lysenko. Stalin loved Lysenko's conflation of science and Soviet philosophy and used his limitless power to ensure that Lysenko's unscientific ideas prevailed."

Dr Finkel said: "While Western scientists embraced evolution and genetics, Russian scientists who thought the same were sent to the gulag. Western crops flourished. Russian crops failed."

The Chief Scientist said there was no place for such political control of science. "Frank and fearless advice - no matter the views of the political commissars at the EPA," he said.

Dr Finkel said that he valued his independence and was grateful that no Australian prime minister or minister had ever told him what to say.

His comments came at the end of a short speech that focused on how he had been managing the review of the National Electricity Market.

He pointed out that Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg could have asked an economist to chair the review, but had asked him.

He came to the role independently, apart from his love of electrons.

Dr Finkel said that he had been phoned at 11.40pm on October 6, 2016, after he'd had "one or two whiskys" when Mr Frydenberg requested he chair the review.

"But, but, but ... " was his first reaction, but a "tired" minister had already hung up. He agreed to take on the task the next morning.
Dr Finkel said there was urgent need to ensure science was at the centre of policy making.

He said that in government there were only 22 federal MPs with a background in science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM); there is only one of 18 federal departmental heads; no COAG energy ministers; and no premiers.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #1 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler? Who will he be tomorrow? Pinochet? Ceaucescu?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #2 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 7:03pm ... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm: Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler? Who will he be tomorrow? Pinochet? Ceaucescu? why? you don' think someones actions can be compared to multiple people?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20287 Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #3 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 7:08pm Yep. Look up the science on the EPA's PM2.5 and how they would differentiate between local and interstate emissions. They wanted to fine interstate polluters.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #4 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:35pm ... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm: Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler? Who will he be tomorrow? Pinochet? Ceaucescu? Nero.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 151301 Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #5 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm ... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm: Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler? Who will he be tomorrow? An alleged child rapist who admits to sexually assaulting women.
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #6 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:01pm greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm: ... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm: Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler? Who will he be tomorrow? An alleged child rapist who admits to sexually assaulting women. Exactly, tomorrow he might be Bill Clinton. They're just silly names from silly people.
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Rider Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2669 OnTheRoad Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #7 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:06pm All I hear is the sweet sweet sound of swamps draining. Corrupt fraudsters being exposed and their much hyped climate science being shown the door. Good news all round.
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...

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Re: Science under attack under Trump
Reply #8 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:11pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:35pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm:

Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler?

Who will he be tomorrow? Pinochet? Ceaucescu?

Nero.

He was Nero yesterday, and I'm pretty sure you mentioned caligula too.

Is there any leader, past or present you couldn't compare him to?

Not exactly a leader, but I've always compared him to Nemesis - the bringer of retribution against those who have committed grave hubris. Is that why he worries you?

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In the fullness of time...

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Science under attack under Trump
Reply #9 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:16pm

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm:

Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler?

Who will he be tomorrow?

An alleged child rapist who admits to sexually assaulting women.

Exactly, tomorrow he might be Bill Clinton. They're just silly names from silly people.

Ah.

Silly people.

Trump is the one who says he sexually assaults women so, yes, I agree that he's a silly person.

However, I wouldn't necessarily call women/children who say they've been raped 'silly people'.

If one of your daughters was raped I'm not sure you would call her a 'silly person' for making an allegation against her attacker.

Or, would you?

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Science under attack under Trump
Reply #10 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:17pm

Rider wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

All I hear is the sweet sweet sound of swamps draining.

Corrupt fraudsters being exposed and their much hyped climate science being shown the door. Good news all round.

LOL, SO HOW DOES THE INTERNET WORK?

HOW DOES YOUR GAY MOBILE PHONE WORK?

HEY, HOW DOES YOUR OLD HOME PHONE WORK?

HOW DO YOU EVEN GET TO WORK?

- it's called method buddy and that is all science is: documented method!

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Science under attack under Trump
Reply #11 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:18pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:16pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm:

Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler?

Who will he be tomorrow?

An alleged child rapist who admits to sexually assaulting women.

Exactly, tomorrow he might be Bill Clinton. They're just silly names from silly people.

Ah.

Silly people.

Trump is the one who says he sexually assaults women so, yes, I agree that he's a silly person.

However, I wouldn't necessarily call women/children who say they've been raped 'silly people'.

If one of your daughters was raped I'm not sure you would call her a 'silly person' for making an allegation against her attacker.

Or, would you?

it's well known that not all reported rape is actualy rape.... don't know too many doctors do you buddy Wink

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Science under attack under Trump
Reply #12 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:22pm

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:16pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 8:37pm:

... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 6:52pm:

Stalin? Wasnt he supposed to be Hitler?

Who will he be tomorrow?

An alleged child rapist who admits to sexually assaulting women.

Exactly, tomorrow he might be Bill Clinton. They're just silly names from silly people.

Ah.

Silly people.

Trump is the one who says he sexually assaults women so, yes, I agree that he's a silly person.

However, I wouldn't necessarily call women/children who say they've been raped 'silly people'.

If one of your daughters was raped I'm not sure you would call her a 'silly person' for making an allegation against her attacker.

Or, would you?

it's well known that not all reported rape is actualy rape.... don't know too many doctors do you buddy Wink

If your daughter/sister/mother told you she had been raped, would you call her a silly person?

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #13 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:25pm Don't be silly gweg.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 151301 Gender:	Re: Science under attack under Trump Reply #14 - Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:26pm ... wrote on Feb 8^th, 2017 at 9:25pm: Don't be silly gweg. No answer (and no surprise).
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