Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print
Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy (Read 2193 times)
Raven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2982
Around
Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
What is the best way to expose President Trump’s “alternative facts”? Do you engage in debate, call him names, or simply ignore him?

So far, none of these approaches has yielded tangible results. But for journalists, at least, CNN’s Jake Tapper may have just provided a clear path forward.

On his daily political program, The Lead With Jake Tapper, the anchor and longtime political journalist decided to address Trump’s allegations of massive voter fraud head on.

“President Trump is claiming, and the White House is reaffirming, the fiction that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election,” Tapper said at the top of his broadcast. “It is, empirically, a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence: There is no evidence. It is not true,” Tapper said flatly.

So far, Tapper’s smackdown might not sound all that different than anyone else calling b.s. on Trump’s lies. But instead of just being dismissive, Tapper meets the allegation head on. In debate, it’s called a steel man argument—rather than the typical straw man approach, in which you make someone’s claim sound so dumb that you don’t actually have to mount a logical defense against it.

But that didn’t mean Tapper was above throwing some haymakers. Like this part where he uses Trump’s own controversial and derided press secretary against him:

“Moments ago, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer acknowledged that the president believes three to five million votes were illegally cast in November. It was interesting what Mr. Spicer did not say; he did not say that he shared the belief after he was asked,” Tapper said.

And then he brought in the steel man, treating Trump’s argument as if it were reasonable and then fully dismantling it: “Now, has there ever been voter fraud, any instances? Yes. Massive voter fraud? Three to five million votes cast illegally in 2016? No. It’s simply not true. In fact, if there were even a fraction of the voter fraud President Trump is alleging, he would be derelict not to order an investigation,” Tapper said.

“It would likely require a vast conspiracy involving public officials all over the country and would likely have far-reaching impact in other contests, tainting races down the ballot, not just the presidential race,” he continued.

“If President Trump’s beliefs are true, Republican leaders in Congress should be holding hearings and trumpeting this injustice every single day. His Justice Department, his Department of Homeland Security—all of them would need to crack down immediately. Unless, of course, it’s not even remotely true.”

The whole thing was a master class in poignant political discourse and provides a road map for critics on either side of the political aisle for confronting Trump and his surrogates moving forward. Holding alternative facts up to the sunlight of actual facts will make that spray-tan agenda look just as tacky as it really is.
Back to top
 

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20203
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:05pm
 
Raven wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
“President Trump is claiming, and the White House is reaffirming, the fiction that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election,” Tapper said at the top of his broadcast. “It is, empirically, a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence: There is no evidence. It is not true,” Tapper said flatly.



And Tapper knows this how?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:30pm by lee »  
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10766
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:28pm
 
US Election and Vote Rigging: The question is not “if”, but “how much”


http://joannenova.com.au/2016/10/us-election-and-vote-rigging-the-question-is-no...
Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:17pm
 
Alternative facts is a euphemism for lies as alternative medicine is as euphemism for quackery.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 57353
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #4 - Jan 29th, 2017 at 11:42pm
 
Raven wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
But for journalists, at least, CNN’s Jake Tapper may have just provided a clear path forward.



For journalists, he may have. But he didn't.

Trump is president. With 17 million illegals in the US, with systematic support for them by Democrats - 'sanctuary cities, sanctuary campuses', etc- it is entirely feasible that millions of illegals would have voted.

Hundreds of thousands or millions??   Or are the losers proposing that there were no illegals voting??


Why ARE there millions of illegals in the US?? That's the point, really.
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Raven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2982
Around
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #5 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:19am
 
A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.

Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

It is virtually inconceivable that millions of people committed voter fraud in the election. That would mean a conspiracy involving hundreds of electoral officials all over the country.

Trump as usual is blowing steam. He insulted the intelligence of Americans throughout the election campaign and got away with it.

His ego won't allow the possibility that he failed to get all people on board.

He is a petulant man-child who won't pull the trigger on an official investigation because he knows there is no evidence to support his claims.
Back to top
 

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #6 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 8:14am
 
But he still has a point. Why isn't Trump ordering an investigation if he believes wide scale voter fraud?
Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 18405
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #7 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 8:34am
 
The GOP on the state level has been using fear of voter fraud as a method of making it harder for the poor and black to vote. And it is working, even though proven cases of fraud are few and far between. Trump would never call for an investigation because it would expose the GOP's own fraud.

Back to top
 

“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza
WWW  
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #8 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 8:41am
 
lee wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
Raven wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
“President Trump is claiming, and the White House is reaffirming, the fiction that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election,” Tapper said at the top of his broadcast. “It is, empirically, a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence: There is no evidence. It is not true,” Tapper said flatly.



And Tapper knows this how?


a complete LACK of evidence. ZERO. NADA.  And he isnt ordering a massive enquiry into it... because he knows it to be false
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20203
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #9 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 10:42am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 8:41am:
lee wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
Raven wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
“President Trump is claiming, and the White House is reaffirming, the fiction that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election,” Tapper said at the top of his broadcast. “It is, empirically, a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence: There is no evidence. It is not true,” Tapper said flatly.



And Tapper knows this how?


a complete LACK of evidence. ZERO. NADA.  And he isnt ordering a massive enquiry into it... because he knows it to be false


To which you respond with "a complete LACK of evidence. ZERO. NADA. "

I didn't think you would admit to that. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20203
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #10 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 10:44am
 
Raven wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:19am:
A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.

Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

It is virtually inconceivable that millions of people committed voter fraud in the election. That would mean a conspiracy involving hundreds of electoral officials all over the country.

Trump as usual is blowing steam. He insulted the intelligence of Americans throughout the election campaign and got away with it.

His ego won't allow the possibility that he failed to get all people on board.

He is a petulant man-child who won't pull the trigger on an official investigation because he knows there is no evidence to support his claims.



So what you are saying is Tapper has NO knowledge of 2016 election.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #11 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 11:28am
 
lee wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 10:44am:
Raven wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:19am:
A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.

Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

It is virtually inconceivable that millions of people committed voter fraud in the election. That would mean a conspiracy involving hundreds of electoral officials all over the country.

Trump as usual is blowing steam. He insulted the intelligence of Americans throughout the election campaign and got away with it.

His ego won't allow the possibility that he failed to get all people on board.

He is a petulant man-child who won't pull the trigger on an official investigation because he knows there is no evidence to support his claims.



So what you are saying is Tapper has NO knowledge of 2016 election.



Try again.  Tapper has no knowledge of any comprehensive voter fraud. Neither does anyone else - which is the point.  See what being a Trump support has done to your brain?
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Raven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2982
Around
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #12 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:07pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 10:44am:
Raven wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:19am:
A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.

Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

It is virtually inconceivable that millions of people committed voter fraud in the election. That would mean a conspiracy involving hundreds of electoral officials all over the country.

Trump as usual is blowing steam. He insulted the intelligence of Americans throughout the election campaign and got away with it.

His ego won't allow the possibility that he failed to get all people on board.

He is a petulant man-child who won't pull the trigger on an official investigation because he knows there is no evidence to support his claims.



So what you are saying is Tapper has NO knowledge of 2016 election.


Nobody has any knowledge of massive voter fraud in the 2016. Why? Because there is no evidence of massive voter fraud in the 2016 election.
Back to top
 

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20203
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #13 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 3:01pm
 
Raven wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
Nobody has any knowledge of massive voter fraud in the 2016. Why? Because there is no evidence of massive voter fraud in the 2016 election.



So is absence of evidence the same as evidence of absence?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20203
Gender: male
Re: Journalists exposes voter fraud conspiracy
Reply #14 - Jan 30th, 2017 at 3:04pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 30th, 2017 at 11:28am:
Try again.  Tapper has no knowledge of any comprehensive voter fraud. Neither does anyone else - which is the point.  See what being a Trump support has done to your brain?



So how is he proclaiming that there isn't any evidence?

Raven wrote on Jan 29th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
“President Trump is claiming, and the White House is reaffirming, the fiction that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election,” Tapper said at the top of his broadcast. “It is, empirically, a stunning allegation for which the White House is providing no evidence. And there is a reason they are providing no evidence: There is no evidence. It is not true,” Tapper said flatly.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print