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The growing Centrelink debt scandal (Read 41799 times)
TheFunPolice
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #225 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:41pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 1:54pm:
When you remove human checking computer errors are not caught.


Simple errors like an employers’ name being recorded slightly differently on Centrelink and ATO records: a human would have spotted that and no action would be taken. Now there is no human checking these errors are not caught and Centrelink says you worked for two employers not one.

That is what is happening now the Libs have removed the human checking of output.

Bill Gates: "..when you automate an inefficient system you simply increase that inefficiency!"

--> The whole luddite thing smashes the faux-conservatives out of 21st century legitimacy NAD YOU CAN TAKE THAT STATEMENT TO THE TOO-BIG-TO-FAIL FAKE BANK  Shocked
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TheFunPolice
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #226 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:41pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 1:54pm:
When you remove human checking computer errors are not caught.


Simple errors like an employers’ name being recorded slightly differently on Centrelink and ATO records: a human would have spotted that and no action would be taken. Now there is no human checking these errors are not caught and Centrelink says you worked for two employers not one.

That is what is happening now the Libs have removed the human checking of output.

Bill Gates: "..when you automate an inefficient system you simply increase that inefficiency!"

--> The whole luddite thing smashes the faux-conservatives out of 21st century legitimacy NAD YOU CAN TAKE THAT STATEMENT TO THE TOO-BIG-TO-FAIL FAKE BANK  Shocked
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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TheFunPolice
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #227 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:42pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 1:54pm:
When you remove human checking computer errors are not caught.


Simple errors like an employers’ name being recorded slightly differently on Centrelink and ATO records: a human would have spotted that and no action would be taken. Now there is no human checking these errors are not caught and Centrelink says you worked for two employers not one.

That is what is happening now the Libs have removed the human checking of output.

Bill Gates: "..when you automate an inefficient system you simply increase that inefficiency!"

--> The whole luddite thing smashes the faux-conservatives out of 21st century legitimacy NAD YOU CAN TAKE THAT STATEMENT TO THE TOO-BIG-TO-FAIL FAKE BANK  Shocked
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #228 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:43pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 9:13am:
Obviously the Centrelink programming is pretty basic.

If it's in BASIC, it's NOT pretty.


For my sins I once had to write an order entry and invoicing program in BASIC on the TRS80 Model 1. Took a loooooong time  Grin
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #229 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:45pm
 
ooops, one suspects one is guilty of paraphrasing:  he might have actually said, "..you simply increase the volu,..." ,...wait- no i stand by my first memorised attempt!

Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink (I love caveats and stuff  Grin)
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #230 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:47pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 9:13am:
Obviously the Centrelink programming is pretty basic.

If it's in BASIC, it's NOT pretty.


For my sins I once had to write an order entry and invoicing program in BASIC on the TRS80 Model 1. Took a loooooong time  Grin

..I bet you not aslong as I've spent correcting my typos on this friggin' forum  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy,... sometimes I just let it hang and go to bed but that's a rare event!

Cheesy
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #231 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 4:42pm
 
Tudge was on early ABC news just now—they are persisting with the very flawed automated data matching.

Next week will be a very damaging backdown I reckon.

Beyond cruel, beyond stupid but their money raising target is $4Bn and they will try and get it anyway they can, frightened they will lose the 9As.

Meantime their bull headed approach to raking in money whether truly owed or not will be seeing people, those who have received some benefits from Centrelink, pensioners who will also soon be targeted etc will stop any non-essential spending and hide money under the mattress. This will lose us the 9As  Cheesy
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Grendel
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #232 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 5:01pm
 
So where were we?  Oh yeah the system is flawed...  As Wilkie and I keep saying... 

Quote:
Mr Wilkie said the system was flawed and has called for it to be suspended, telling reporters in Hobart that many of the letters sent to welfare recipients were "just plain wrong".

"The methodology behind the calculation is wrong and it's obviously wrong — I mean, it was designed by a dunderhead," he said.


Key points:

    Centrelink's system cross-references employment data from the ATO and Centrelink
    People have been mistakenly targeted by the system, told to repay debt
    Independent MP Andrew Wilkie slams Social Services Minster, says methodology is wrong


Quote:
Independent MP Andrew Wilkie has criticised the Federal Government over Centrelink's new debt recovery system, saying it was designed by a "dunderhead".


Of course YOU dear Monkeyboy, must think both Wilkie and I are Rightards and support the Libs, even though we state the obvious facts and I call Tudge and Porter idiots.

Does that make you wrong and a liar?
Of course it does. Grin Grin Grin
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #233 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 5:04pm
 
Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 9:13am:
Obviously the Centrelink programming is pretty basic.

If it's in BASIC, it's NOT pretty.

LOL
If its in BASIC the Computer probably wouldn't recognise it.
Obviously the programmer/s who wrote the system have made big mistakes...  it needs to be shutdown and the problems corrected.
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #234 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 5:44pm
 
You are a rightard and Wilkie is a flake.

The system is stuffed because manual checking no longer happens.
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #235 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 6:31pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
Tudge was on early ABC news just now—they are persisting with the very flawed automated data matching.

Next week will be a very damaging backdown I reckon.

Beyond cruel, beyond stupid but their money raising target is $4Bn and they will try and get it anyway they can, frightened they will lose the 9As.

Meantime their bull headed approach to raking in money whether truly owed or not will be seeing people, those who have received some benefits from Centrelink, pensioners who will also soon be targeted etc will stop any non-essential spending and hide money under the mattress. This will lose us the 9As  Cheesy

...let us hope no desperate people take their life: we all know people who don't need false debt demands thrust upon them. Not me, but I wouldn't want it: well me, yeh: so that all makes th edole too difficult and such -forth!

The sick can't even deal with doctors so this is moral law 101 for Turnbull... this can't end well for the libbo blue bloods who are known to hate their own parents!
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #236 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:31pm
 
Perth woman claims Centrelink hounded her for $26,000 debt but she was actually owed $5,000

Quote:
The bungled Centrelink debt-recovery controversy has again come under fire with a Perth woman claiming she was hounded to pay back more than $26,000 she allegedly didn't owe.

The Turnbull government is in the midst of trying to recover $4 billion believed to have been incorrectly paid to welfare recipients using Centrelink's new automated data matching system.

More than 17,000 debt notices were sent out by the Federal government over the Christmas break, with hundreds of people around Australia complaining they were wrongly hounded for repayments. 

Following the litany of complaints, Commonwealth Ombudsman Colin Neave said he would investigate the automated data-matching processes being used to check welfare recipients' eligibility for some Centrelink payments.

It came on the back of Independent MP Andrew Wilkie, Senator Nick Xenophon and Labor calling for the system to be shut down.

Perth woman Claire Etheridge said she was shocked when a letter from Centrelink claimed she owed $26,274.

"It had been a very stressful time," she told Radio 6PR on Wednesday morning.

"Having to deal with that and making complaints to Centrelink and getting calls at 6.30 in the morning because they didn't take the time difference into account from over east.

"I would get text messages from Centrelink saying they were going to call me that day, but they never did.

"I took time off work and I fought it... it was an absolute shambles."

After battling red tape for weeks, Ms Etheridge then got another letter from Centrelink saying she actually owed just $180 for an overpayment of Newstart Allowance from 2011.

She refused to believe she had any debt and, after numerous calls and complaints to Centrelink, it turned out she was actually underpaid and owed close to $5000.

"I'm glad I had to go through that but I don't wish it on anybody because it was an absolute debacle," she said.

"The reason I came forward is because I don't want other people to accept they actually owe money."

Human Services Minister Alan Tudge told Fairfax Media on Wednesday the system "wasn't flawed".

He said despite the ongoing controversy, the system would not be shut down.

​"I don't accept that the system is fundamentally flawed," Mr Tudge told Fairfax Media.

"The basic methodology which underpins it is the same as has been used for many years now. It is simply because we are automating the process, we are able to do greater volumes.

"Different people will have different reasons why they are upset about receiving a letter from Centrelink but of course that is part of the situation, that a higher volume of letters has been going out."

Mr Tudge said the government would tweak the system to remove any glitches.

"There is a legal obligation upon us to send it to the address which they have on their Centrelink file, but perhaps we can do that as well as take other initiatives to ensure that they receive that first letter," he said.

On Tuesday, a Victorian-based Centrelink staffer told Fairfax Media staff warned the Department of Human Services that automated data matching would lead to incorrect debts being issued.

"They don't care about average Australians, they don't care about their customers or their staff," the woman said.

"We told them 'poo', that's not going to work when they explained how the computer was going to do the work and said that it was going to misrepresent people's income and lead to incorrect debts going out, but they just told us 'computers and data can't be wrong'.

"They wanted to save a shitload of money and weren't interested in hearing what we thought about it."

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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:38pm by Bam »  

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #237 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:36pm
 
Quote:
After battling red tape for weeks, Ms Etheridge then got another letter from Centrelink saying she actually owed just $180 for an overpayment of Newstart Allowance from 2011.

Debts with amounts less than $200 may be legally unrecoverable in some circumstances.

SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991
Section 1237AAA - Waiver of small debt
Quote:
(1)  The Secretary must waive the right to recover a debt if:
(a)  the debt is, or is likely to be, less than $200; and
(b)  it is not cost effective for the Commonwealth to take action to recover the debt.
(2)  Subsection (1) does not apply if the debt is at least $50 and could be recovered by deductions under section 1231 from a social security payment of the debtor.

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #238 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:36pm
 
Quote:
a Victorian-based Centrelink staffer told Fairfax Media staff warned the Department of Human Services that automated data matching would lead to incorrect debts being issued.


They need to put back the manual checking they took away to increase (they thought) the rate of recovery of debts.
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #239 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 8:05pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
You are a rightard and Wilkie is a flake.

The system is stuffed because manual checking no longer happens.

And that is the talk of an idiot. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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