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The growing Centrelink debt scandal (Read 41842 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #150 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:11am
 
NO, what the Libs are doing is changing the system, removing the manual checks and not worrying if debts really are debts. That ain’t the Labor system and no amount of screaming by roach can make it so.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #151 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:18am
 
Quote:
Hi Murray…This info might interest you. I’m an Ex Centrelink worker with 30 years experience. I have always worked ‘at the coalface’ i.e. in a local office with customers. I retired 4 years ago…but whats happening now is NOT new. Centrelink have matched info with the ATO for many years. In the past they’d receive raw information & real life Customer service officers would ‘sift’ though the matches of data…Centrelink customers & ATO Taxable income details, They’d look at start dates for employment as customers had declared it , see of it was for the same employer & roughly work out if it lined up They’d check to see if a customer pad been on payment from Centrelink for only part of the year. They’d check if employers were the same on both data bases. IF there were any matches that looked like a person HAD POSSIBLY been overpaid…they’d write to the customer & ask them to call… & tease our WHERE the discrepancy was. Then ask for proof (if it was still available from the customer…ie payslips. ) . If the customer didn’t have them & it looked like there is a possibility of an overpayment , write to the employer to ASK for the information. IF then evidence was collected that the customer had not declared the income correctly/ at all// not used the gross wages/ect & a debt existed… then the debt calculator would raise the debt in accordance with the legislation & the customer was written to. NOW most of that is done away with. It is all automated. A match comes up & the ATO details from . taxable info are split into 26 & calculated using that.& a debt raised.
I don’t think for ONE minute that its Centrelinks doing…THIS smells of the Govt trying the exercise on….Centrelink would NOT have suggested it as they KNOW how many of the matches actually produce REAL debts…NOT what the Govt wants to hear.


https://mdneuzerling.com/2017/01/01/data-illiteracy-is-causing-centrelink-to-iss...

Stinking Libs!
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #152 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:18am
 
.
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Bam
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #153 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:45am
 
A website that's documenting some stories of people being unfairly pursued for money they do not owe.

#NotMyDebt


Some of the stories from here shows that the policy of pursuing debts after the ATO's document retention period may not be far off the mark:

Being from 5 years ago made it very difficult to track down pay slips and documentation
Quote:
It has concerned me a lot over the Christmas period, the short time frame given to pay back the debt initially stressed me out. The fact that it concerns payments from 5 years ago has made it very difficult to track down pay slips and documentation. I feel angry that I am the one accountable for proving the inaccuracies. It has been frustrating dealing with people on the phone who clearly don't understand the system and can't explain the reason for my debt and the skeleton staff they have had available over the holiday period even though they have demanded the payments over this period.


I cannot even find out if I have a debt
Quote:
I was on Youth Allowance when I first moved to the city to attend university. First in my family to do so etc. I applied for Youth Allowance and started receiving while I looked for a job in a new state (and living away from a small country town for the first time). I secured employment, but initially it was casual with unpredictable hours. I later went off Centrelink when I had a reliable enough job to pay my own way through uni (I received payments over two financial years).

When it had been over five and a half years since I had been on Centrelink, I destroyed all my financial paperwork from this time. I figured if the ATO wanted me to keep paperwork for two years for simple returns, then I would keep my Centrelink related paperwork for five years, as it probably constituted a more complicated return.

Now the government is chasing people who were on Centrelink from six years ago (and have the capacity to go further back). As I received part payments, and I worked fulltime for periods in the same financial years as I received Youth Allowance, it seems likely I have a "debt" too.
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Bam
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #154 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:54am
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:11am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Not only that, the fact they are enforcing payments of debts where there is no debt shows that the removing of manual checking was done for a reason: collect as much cash as you can, don’t worry if it is right and legal.

No, the Libs are the ones responsible for this debacle. I hope there will be a class action soon.

Ah according to media reports and department officials the letters only ask for the "clients" to check and clarify their claims.

This is false. The first time that many people even find out there's a problem is when they've been called by one of the debt collection thugs that Centrelink is using. Others are simply getting "invoices" complete with payment details such as BPAY. They received no other letter prior to this.

Many people last dealt with Centrelink years ago and so haven't had any need to keep their address up to date with them. Centrelink can data match with the ATO for payment amounts, but somehow can't do the same to get a current address? Huh

If this was taken to court, Centrelink would be torn to shreds for abusing due process of law. In many cases, they have not served documents properly and made no attempt to do so. If people are being threatened with jail, as Tudge is doing, you can be sure that Centrelink's procedure for service of documents will be subjected to rigorous scrutiny in court if it proceeds to trial. Any defect, and any "charges" won't stick.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #155 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:04pm
 
Nah, the system is the same as Labor designed, screams roach. What BS:

Quote:
The Turnbull government’s mass invoices – constructed from data matching to claim discrepancies exist with Centrelink’s casual, disabled and vulnerable income earners – are expected to be used across the entire pensioner and social security sector. New discrepancies can be created over a recipient’s claimed asset values to substantiate invoices for ‘over-payments’.

The ‘debt’ letters are distressing many recipients, as the public outcry shows.
Data matching and garnishee was originally implemented by Labor in government, but it was the Turnbull government that devised the more aggressive, presumptive and system-wide invoicing strategy.


Worse to come.
Quote:
With a flagged $4 billion to be recovered over four years, Centrelink’s demand letters over alleged debts could be just the start.

The Turnbull government’s mass invoices – constructed from data matching to claim discrepancies exist with Centrelink’s casual, disabled and vulnerable income earners – are expected to be used across the entire pensioner and social security sector. New discrepancies can be created over a recipient’s claimed asset values to substantiate invoices for ‘over-payments’.


Like so many of the shambles’ efforts this one will be counter productive:
Quote:
Our informant said the Centrelink data matching strategy would soon be exposed as counter-productive, with recipients now likely to desist in seeking any paid work for fear of losing any of their welfare payments.


Or look for payment “under the counter” so tax revenue misses out. All this could have been foreseen with a few minutes thought. I guess the shambles doesn’t think and that really does seem to be the case!

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2017/01/08/centrelink-debts-just-th...
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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:13pm by Jovial Monk »  

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Bam
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #156 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:10pm
 
Moir's take on this.
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tax-dodgers2.jpg (142 KB | 20 )
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #157 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:13pm
 
Pure neoconservatism in action.
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Grendel
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #158 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:50pm
 
Yes Monkeyboy the system itself is that designed by Plibersek and Shorten...  you calling them liars.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #159 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:56pm
 
What the shambles is using is not the system designed by Labor. It is a variation of it that removes all the checks.
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Grendel
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #160 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:56pm
 
Quote:
Labor’s leadership team of Bill Shorten and Tanya Plibersek pioneered the “robo-debt” data-matching system Centrelink is using to target current and former welfare recipients for apparently not declaring their income properly — but they now argue it should be suspended.


The automated system of matching income data from the tax office and income as reported to Centrelink to identify discrepancies was announced in a joint release­ by the then minister for human services, Ms Plibersek, and the then assistant treasurer, now Opposition Leader, in June 2011, adding an extra $71 million to the budget. The release said the “tax garnishee process had been carried out manually once a year for the past 15 years and involved a significant amount of time on the part of departmental officers”.

“The automation of this process will free up resources and result­ in more people being referred to the tax garnishee process, retrieving more outstanding debt on behalf of taxpayers,” Mr Shorten said at the time.


The measure was forecast to “identify” 63,000 former customers over four years in addit­ion to the 43,000 captured in 2009-10.

The amount of debt recovered from welfare letters in 2010-11 was $1.8 billion, jumping to $2.2bn in 2013-14.

Under a dramatic escalation of the same system, the Coal­ition plans to recover almost $4bn in debt over the next four years, partly helped by a bipartisan vote in parliament that extended the statute of limitations on old debt that can be chased
.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #161 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:58pm
 
It is not the same system as all the manual checking has been removed. It is like a Ford with a Holden engine—can’t call it a Ford anymore.

Are you really that thick or that rightarded that you can’t see that?
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Grendel
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #162 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:03pm
 
Quote:
Burst of forgetfulness around Centrelink’s debt collection efforts


Labor to the rescue! Fairfax reports exclusively on the opposition’s efforts to stop Centrelink debt collections, Fairfax websites, Friday:

Linda Burney, Labor’s human services spokeswoman, has written to the Australian National Audit Office requesting they investigate Centrelink’s controversial $4.5 billion debt clawback project amid ongoing accusations that it is unfairly targeting people and miscalculating bills.

They left something out.
The Australian’s Rick Morton, Saturday:

Labor’s leadership team of Bill Shorten and Tanya Plibersek pioneered the “robo-debt” data-matching system Centrelink is using to target current and former welfare recipients for apparently not declaring their income properly — but they now argue it should be suspended. The automated system of matching income data from the tax office and income as reported to Centrelink to identify discrepancies was announced in a joint release¬ by the then minister for human services, Ms Plibersek, and the then assistant treasurer, now Opposition Leader, in June 2011, adding an extra $71 million to the budget.
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FRED.
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #163 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:06pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:03pm:
Quote:
Burst of forgetfulness around Centrelink’s debt collection efforts


Labor to the rescue! Fairfax reports exclusively on the opposition’s efforts to stop Centrelink debt collections, Fairfax websites, Friday:

Linda Burney, Labor’s human services spokeswoman, has written to the Australian National Audit Office requesting they investigate Centrelink’s controversial $4.5 billion debt clawback project amid ongoing accusations that it is unfairly targeting people and miscalculating bills.

They left something out.
The Australian’s Rick Morton, Saturday:

Labor’s leadership team of Bill Shorten and Tanya Plibersek pioneered the “robo-debt” data-matching system Centrelink is using to target current and former welfare recipients for apparently not declaring their income properly — but they now argue it should be suspended. The automated system of matching income data from the tax office and income as reported to Centrelink to identify discrepancies was announced in a joint release¬ by the then minister for human services, Ms Plibersek, and the then assistant treasurer, now Opposition Leader, in June 2011, adding an extra $71 million to the budget.


OOOHHH that cant be true can it  Wink
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Grendel
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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #164 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:07pm
 
Monk blames staff cuts for system failures...  but Albanese says...

The Coalition’s “slash and burn” approach to the public service had weakened Centrelink, forcing Australians to spend hours on the phone, and unable to have their issue handled in the agency’s offices.
 

gee Monk....  do you honestly think this is the problem with the system? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
people have always had to spend hours on the phone with Centrelink. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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