Australian Politics Forum - The growing Centrelink debt scandal

Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #120 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:05pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

You're making up crap again. You have no evidence to support this.

Also, Centrelink is a government department, not a payment. This is a mistake that is often made by people with a poor grasp of facts.

You mean when ever the media etc refer to people 'receiving centrelink' they dont know that the difference? Or anyone else for that matter, pedant?

Pedantry ... the last accusation of the terminally incorrect.

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #121 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:11pm

Centrelink debts slashed after welfare recipients speak out in media

Quote:

Key points:
* Two welfare recipients had their Centrelink debts cut after speaking out on 7.30
* George Birkett had his debt of more than $7,000 wiped clean
* Amanda Stilbe had her debt slashed from $1,338.07 to $497.03
* Labor wants the audit office to investigate the scheme

Centrelink has slashed the debts of two welfare recipients after they spoke out about the Federal Government's controversial $4.5 billion debt clawback program.

Amanda Stilbe and George Birkett spoke to 7.30 on Wednesday about letters from Centrelink accusing them of underreporting their income while receiving benefits.

Ms Stilbe received a call from a Centrelink representative around 8:00pm (AEDT) on Wednesday, just minutes after the program finished, informing her that her debt had been reduced from $1,338.07 to $497.03.

"He said that an employee had entered some data incorrectly so he got them to do a manual recalculation," she said.

"He even gave me a direct number to call him on if I had any more questions. There [is] no way this would have happened if I hadn't spoken out in the media."

Ms Stilbe said she intended to dispute the remaining debt.

'The debt had been wiped'

The Federal Government and Centrelink have been faced with a massive backlash over the automated system that has been used to match welfare recipients' reported income.

Since July last year, Centrelink has sent debt notices to almost 170,000 Australians it says have underreported their pay.

Mr Birkett was sent a debt of more than $7,000 after Centrelink determined that reimbursements he received for travel costs as part of his job should have been reported as income.

But Mr Birkett's debt was wiped today, two days after he spoke to 7.30.

"I rang them with some information that I had been given by Victorian Legal Aid, and by the time I got through to the compliance unit they said it had all been sorted out and the debt had been wiped," he said.

"And they said that the money they had already started deducting from my pension to pay the debt would be reimbursed some time in the next two days."

Labor calls for investigation

Speaking to 7.30 on Wednesday, Social Services Minister Christian Porter defended the debt recovery program.

"The debt has been raised against the individuals in question because they failed to respond to the initial notice requesting information," he said.

"We are under an obligation to the taxpayer to check when a difference is highlighted between reporting to the ATO and reporting to Centrelink which is correct, and if you don't respond to that request for information inside the 21-day period, then a debt may be raised against you."

Ms Stilbe said she was "furious" after watching Mr Porter's comments.

"That was unbelievable," she said.

"I got in touch with Centrelink two days after my initial notice and told them my income for the year which they were asking about. But it didn't change anything because they only asked about my total income for the year, not how much I was earning every fortnight."

Welfare groups and community lawyers have urged the Government to put the program on hold and investigate whether a glitch in the system resulted in people being sent incorrect debt notices.

Labor's human services spokesperson, Linda Burney, has written to the Australian National Audit Office asking them to investigate the program.

"The number of complaints to my office and my colleagues' offices has been overwhelming," her letter said.

"There is considerable public concern over the administration of this program as well as a lack of clarity around the value of 'savings' derived from the program to date."

The Department of Human Services has been contacted for comment.

So we have Centrelink raising a debt of over $7000 by double dipping a portion of someone's income, which is wiped completely when he complained. Another person having about $800 removed because some drone in the Centrelink bureaucracy made an error.

Just how common are these errors?

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #122 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:12pm Page flip....
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Belgarion

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #123 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:56pm

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. That's fallacious. You need to provide links, not anecdotes.

You're also asserting it's catching more crooks than innocent people. Again, this is a claim you're making with no evidence.

Nobody is defending crooks. There's a huge fuss - including in the Murdoch press - precisely because a lot of people caught up in this aren't crooks.

Links?...Do you really think my source, who I have known and trusted for a very long time, posts in confidence information on the net? Roll Eyes

But what evidence do you have apart from a few articles in the media? You seem awfully ready to believe whatever you read on the internet....... Roll Eyes

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #124 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 10:31pm

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. That's fallacious. You need to provide links, not anecdotes.

You're also asserting it's catching more crooks than innocent people. Again, this is a claim you're making with no evidence.

Nobody is defending crooks. There's a huge fuss - including in the Murdoch press - precisely because a lot of people caught up in this aren't crooks.

Links?...Do you really think my source, who I have known and trusted for a very long time, posts in confidence information on the net? Roll Eyes

But what evidence do you have apart from a few articles in the media? You seem awfully ready to believe whatever you read on the internet....... Roll Eyes

So you've got no proof then. Thought so. I don't give a fsck about who your "source" is. If they haven't the balls to put their name to it, they aren't much of a source.

Next time you post unfounded bullshit, consider that you WILL be called on it.

Do you really think Centrelink's systems are error-free? Hmm? So why are so many people having debts reduced or completely eliminated when they start questioning them?

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #125 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 10:41pm

An Indigenous elder claims Centrelink cleared her of nearly $8000 debt after she said she would take her case to the Ombudsman’s Office

Quote:

Ngarrindjeri elder Elaine Kropinyeri from Mount Gambier in South Australia told SBS News Centrelink had recently cleared her of a $7800 debt, citing an “internal mistake”.

Ms Elaine Kropiyeri said she had not worked for two-and-a-half years after she resigned for “personal reasons” as a cultural consultant at a local foster care service in Mount Gambier, and successfully applied for Centrelink’s NewStart Allowance.

She said she discovered the so-called debt after Centrelink informed her she had been overpaid, in a separate matter, by $600. According to Ms Kropiyeri, Centrelink did not explain how the overpayment had been calculated, but deducted $464 from her regular payments towards the debt.

“It was absolutely terrifying…when you’re on a very meagre income, barely surviving,” she said.

Ms Kropiyeri found the $7800 in an obscure area of her MyGov Centrelink online account while trying to understand her debt notice. This figure, according to Ms Kropiyeri, didn't appear in the usual 'deductions' section.

“They didn’t even send me a letter,” she said.

“If I didn't accidentally come across it the way I did, they would still be deducting from my meagre income.”

Subsequently, Ms Kropiyeri received a statement on November 29 confirming her fears that the larger sum was in fact owing. With the notice showing $7154.52 was still to be repaid, she was able to work out Centrelink had been deducting part of her payment without her knowledge for this larger debt.

Centrelink has been under fire this week over its debt recovery process. There have been reports of welfare recipients receiving debt recovery letters over the past month, in some cases over contested debts.

Social Services Minister Christian Porter confirmed on Tuesday 169,000 “polite” debt letters had been distributed by an automated system.

The Labor Party has criticised the system as flawed.

“This is a crude and inaccurate approach with data matching… we think it should stop,” Labor’s acting human services spokesman Doug Cameron told ABC radio last week.

It is part of the federal government’s attempt to retrieve $4 billion in overpayments.

When Ms Kropiyeri enquired to Centrelink over the phone about the disputed amount owing, she said the staff member could not explain it.

“I am still unsure how this [debt] came to be because, as I said, I hadn't worked and did my reporting every fortnight.”

She was referred to a specialists team where a staff member said the onus was on her to explain the debt to Centrelink.

“But it’s [their] department that determines what overpayments that need to be distributed - I don’t have access to their computers.”

Because she was sure she did not owe any amount, she said she told Centrelink she would take her case to the Ombudsman's Office and ended the phone call.

Within half an hour they called her back to tell her the debt had been waived because of an “internal mistake”.

“I know my rights, so I stood up, tooth and nail, to them.”

On Wednesday, independent federal member for Denison Andrew Wilkie MP called the Commonwealth Ombudsman to investigate the system.

"This is terrifying people, and we've got a government who is saying there is no problem," he told reporters in Hobart on Wednesday.

"I've had four people now approach me... who I would describe as presenting as suicidal."

He cited a case of a woman who said Centrelink told her she owed $69,000. When she enquired into it, the service said in fact she owed it $3000 but could not provide her with a reason why.

A spokesperson from the Ombudsman’s Office told SBS News that it was aware about the issue brought to its attention by Mr Wilkie and was seeking further information from Centrelink.

They added that the office would not comment further at this time.

Note these in particular:

Quote:

When Ms Kropiyeri enquired to Centrelink over the phone about the disputed amount owing, she said the staff member could not explain it.

Quote:

He cited a case of a woman who said Centrelink told her she owed $69,000. When she enquired into it, the service said in fact she owed it $3000 but could not provide her with a reason why.

So there are "debts" that cannot even be explained? Who in their right mind would accept claims for debts of thousands of dollars without an explanation as to what these debts are or how they were incurred?

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #126 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 10:58pm

ALHR slams unethical behaviour of Centrelink as abuse of legal process
(Australian Lawyers for Human Rights, alhr.org.au)
Quote:

MEDIA RELEASE

For immediate release – 4 January 2017

The current attacks upon past and present pension payment recipients by Centrelink and the Minister for Social Services are “wrong at so many legal levels that it’s hard to know where to begin,”, ALHR President Benedict Coyne said.

“At the most basic level, no entity should be issuing legal demands for money unless they are absolutely certain the money is owed and can substantiate this in court. It is for the creditor to prove any debt. It is also up to the creditor to ensure the alleged debtor receives the repayment demand. It is entirely wrong for Centrelink to put alleged debts in the hands of debt recovery agents when the debts are not proved and/or the alleged debtor never received the original claim, or to claim interest or process fees on money that is very probably not owing at all.”

“The whole procedure is quite unethical and a complete abuse of legal process,” he said

“In this case it appears clear from numerous reports that the computer software the Minister is relying on is flawed. Legally, it is for Centrelink as purported creditor to substantiate its calculations, not for individuals as alleged debtors to prove that Centrelink is wrong. But of course Centrelink threatens to cut off recipients if they don’t pay, putting them in a terrifying situation. This could well be described as ‘demanding money with menaces.’”

“It is also clear that Centrelink has made minimal efforts either to check its calculations, despite having the ability to cross check information with Tax Office records, or to track down current addresses of alleged debtors.”

“The situation is even worse in that Centrelink is targeting individuals with minimal resources who may be in particularly vulnerable situations, including asylum seekers and people with disabilities. According to a recent news article, asylum seekers have been reminded in their debt notices that ‘an outstanding debt to the commonwealth can affect future visa grants and/or re-entry into Australia.’ The repercussions, therefore, could be dire.”

Further, Centrelink is refusing to provide any means by which individuals or their solicitors can readily contact a human being at Centrelink to do what Centrelink is [wrongly] demanding, which is to prove that the individuals don’t owe the money being claimed.

This refusal on the part of Centrelink to facilitate normal methods of contact enormously exacerbates the emotional stress of those targetted and again indicates unethical behaviour and an abuse of process.”

“ALHR believes that the behaviour of Centrelink and the Social Services Minister involves numerous breaches of the human rights of those being targeted for alleged debts, contrary to Australia’s international law obligations. Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the following rights are being breached:

* to be treated with dignity (Preamble, Article 1)
* to the protection of the rule of law (that there must be proper laws, a legal system that allows appeal against government decisions, and the laws of the country must be properly enforced) (Preamble) and the related right to freedom from attacks upon one’s reputation (Article 12)
* to non-discrimination on the basis of property (or lack of it, the persons being targeted being those who have received a government payment)(Preamble, Article 2)
* to equal protection of the law without discrimination (Article 7)
* not to be arbitrarily deprived of property (Article 17)
* to equal access to the public service (Article 21)
* to social security (Article 9 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, ICESCR, which is binding on Australia)
* to protection against unemployment and to have employment income supplemented ‘if necessary, by other means of social protection’ (Article 23)
* to an adequate standard of living, including the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond one’s control (Article 25)

“ALHR calls on the Minister to immediately halt the operation of the current process and to refund, with interest, all moneys incorrectly claimed by Centrelink.”

To arrange an interview with [Benedict Coyne], please contact Matt Mitchell on 0431 980 365 or media@alhr.org.au

Need Help?

Thousands of people all over Australia are receiving intimidating letters from Centrelink, many of which are falsely claiming debts are owed. If you have received one, or know someone who has, consider your options before paying. Our friends at Victoria Legal Aid have prepared something to help: https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-legal-answers/centrelink/get-help

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #127 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:12am

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. That's fallacious. You need to provide links, not anecdotes.

You're also asserting it's catching more crooks than innocent people. Again, this is a claim you're making with no evidence.

Nobody is defending crooks. There's a huge fuss - including in the Murdoch press - precisely because a lot of people caught up in this aren't crooks.

Links?...Do you really think my source, who I have known and trusted for a very long time, posts in confidence information on the net? Roll Eyes

But what evidence do you have apart from a few articles in the media? You seem awfully ready to believe whatever you read on the internet....... Roll Eyes

Of course not - just blathers it out to every Tom, Dick and Harry within earshot... another gutless wonder. When my cousin's husband was working as a clerk of a court, he once muttered darkly about the terrible things he saw - never saw a damned one of them.... all he did was shuffle paper.

Point is - it's a real ego booster to come along and say how many of these nasty thieving bastards you are catching... Look At Me!

What does your source smoke, BTW?

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #128 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:25am

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 10:31pm:

..............
So you've got no proof then. Thought so. I don't give a fsck about who your "source" is. If they haven't the balls to put their name to it, they aren't much of a source.

Next time you post unfounded bullshit, consider that you WILL be called on it.

Do you really think Centrelink's systems are error-free? Hmm? So why are so many people having debts reduced or completely eliminated when they start questioning them?

I accept your irrational and emotive outburst as an acknowledgement of your lack of reasoned argument.

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #129 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:50am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:02pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

The Liberals are having a great time aren't they , one week ripping off pensioners and the next it is the unemployed.

No way they will try to get the wealthy or the multinationals to pay their tax.

People try to argue that the Liberals are not really like that but the proof is in the pudding. It is what they do - every time.

99% of these people have genuiely been overpaid wither by error or false claims. Is that a problem to you?

You understand that one of the major parts of the problem is the algorithm which is averaging total earnings over 12 months and dividing by the number of weeks to determine average income. People are saying that this is true.

Obviously this means that every single person who was on benefits and got a job would have an average weekly income higher than is allowable.

Virtually every single unemployed person who got a job must fall victim to this fault with very few exceptions. You sure about that 99% figure that was pulled from the 7th planet. It would in fact be closer to 99% the other way.

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2017 at 8:15am by Dnarever »

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #130 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:54am

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. That's fallacious. You need to provide links, not anecdotes.

You're also asserting it's catching more crooks than innocent people. Again, this is a claim you're making with no evidence.

Nobody is defending crooks. There's a huge fuss - including in the Murdoch press - precisely because a lot of people caught up in this aren't crooks.

Links?...Do you really think my source, who I have known and trusted for a very long time, posts in confidence information on the net? Roll Eyes

But what evidence do you have apart from a few articles in the media? You seem awfully ready to believe whatever you read on the internet....... Roll Eyes

Even if your source exists in the real world chances are that she does not really know and is defending her position and or employer.

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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #131 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:56am The Liberal government has panicked and lashed out wildly and irrationally with the Centrelink welfare payment claw-back. What this portends is that the government perceives that there is looming spike in welfare payments that it is seeking to mitigate by spreading fear.
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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #132 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:06pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:02pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

The Liberals are having a great time aren't they , one week ripping off pensioners and the next it is the unemployed.

No way they will try to get the wealthy or the multinationals to pay their tax.

People try to argue that the Liberals are not really like that but the proof is in the pudding. It is what they do - every time.

99% of these people have genuiely been overpaid wither by error or false claims. Is that a problem to you?

You understand that one of the major parts of the problem is the algorithm which is averaging total earnings over 12 months and dividing by the number of weeks to determine average income. People are saying that this is true.

Obviously thins means that every single person who was on benefits and got a job would have an average weekly income higher than is allowable.

Virtually every single unemployed person who got a job must fall victim to this fault with very few exceptions. You sure about that 99% figure that was pulled from the 7th planet. It would in fact be closer to 99% the other way.

He's making up statistics in a futile attempt to disguise his profound ignorance. When we've got the government themselves conceding that at least 20% of the letters would have no actual debt, the actual figure is likely to be higher. 99% is baseless.

This has been a real clusterfsck from the government, and I wouldn't be surprised if they take a hit in the next round of opinion polls due out at the end of the month.

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #133 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:40pm

Unforgiven wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:56am:

The Liberal government has panicked and lashed out wildly and irrationally with the Centrelink welfare payment claw-back.

What this portends is that the government perceives that there is looming spike in welfare payments that it is seeking to mitigate by spreading fear.

Could be right but more primary is the fact that that the Liberals have already factored about $4Billion of debt recovery from the unemployed into this years Budget, the announcements have already been made and it is in the documentation.

Whoops looks like the numbers are wrong again. Who would than thunk that the Liberals would factor money that does not exist into their budget fudget.

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« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:46pm by Dnarever »

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #134 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:45pm

Bam wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:02pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

The Liberals are having a great time aren't they , one week ripping off pensioners and the next it is the unemployed.

No way they will try to get the wealthy or the multinationals to pay their tax.

People try to argue that the Liberals are not really like that but the proof is in the pudding. It is what they do - every time.

99% of these people have genuiely been overpaid wither by error or false claims. Is that a problem to you?

You understand that one of the major parts of the problem is the algorithm which is averaging total earnings over 12 months and dividing by the number of weeks to determine average income. People are saying that this is true.

Obviously thins means that every single person who was on benefits and got a job would have an average weekly income higher than is allowable.

Virtually every single unemployed person who got a job must fall victim to this fault with very few exceptions. You sure about that 99% figure that was pulled from the 7th planet. It would in fact be closer to 99% the other way.

He's making up statistics in a futile attempt to disguise his profound ignorance. When we've got the government themselves conceding that at least 20% of the letters would have no actual debt, the actual figure is likely to be higher. 99% is baseless.

This has been a real clusterfsck from the government, and I wouldn't be surprised if they take a hit in the next round of opinion polls due out at the end of the month.

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When we've got the government themselves conceding that at least 20% of the letters would have no actual debt

I would think that is really optimistic and they likely have their fingers and toes crossed hoping that it is really only that bad. Even twice that 40% would be a good result for them, there is a high probability that it is worse than that.

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« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:21pm by Dnarever »

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