Australian Politics Forum - The growing Centrelink debt scandal

Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #105 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

So you're trusting a "Press conference" from someone desperately trying to cover their arses? Who was giving that conference?

You do realise that the embattled Minister Porter (who's going to lose his marginal seat in 2019) has been emphasising number of complaints for a reason? Number of complaints are meaningless. Why not discuss number of debts paid, number of appeals and the like? He's painting a deliberately false picture.

As far as the Turnbull government is concerned, they have just jumped the shark. This is going to be as damaging to them as the "pink batts" scheme was to Labor. What must be understood - and pay close attention to this - is that many of the people who are targeted are people who were working for part of that year and claiming benefits for part of the year, entirely legally, because that's how income support works. Many of them have jobs now. That demographic is likely to have a significant number of swinging voters. These swinging voters will be exacting punishment at the next election.

Goodbye, Turnbull government. Two years and three months to go... Tick, tick, tick.

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Dnarever

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #106 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #107 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments.

And you believe them - seriously?

Why would I not? I know you have trouble accepting evidence not to your liking but there would be no motivation (or ability) to lie. No one is defending the stuffup. Just giving you some extra information that apparently you dont like. How Trumpish of you.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #108 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:42pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments.

And you believe them - seriously?

Why would I not?

The coalition is full of liars.

They have a track record of lying to cover up their lies.

Quote:

I know you have trouble accepting evidence not to your liking but there would be no motivation (or ability) to lie.

They are the worst, most incompetent government this nation has ever seen.

They need to start appearing to be actually doing something.

Of course they have the motivation to lie.

I'm calling 100% bullshit on their claim: they have not "already received around $300M in back payments".

If you think they have, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

Over to you ...

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #109 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #110 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:48pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments.

And you believe them - seriously?

Why would I not?

The coalition is full of liars.

They have a track record of lying to cover up their lies.

Quote:

I know you have trouble accepting evidence not to your liking but there would be no motivation (or ability) to lie.

They are the worst, most incompetent government this nation has ever seen.

They need to start appearing to be actually doing something.

Of course they have the motivation to lie.

I'm calling 100% bullshit on their claim: they have not "already received around $300M in back payments".

If you think they have, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

Over to you ...

You just spent the last two months whining about Donald Trump and his lies and about how his idiot supporters believed anything that suited their personal beliefs. And then you do exactly the same thing.

That is why you demand that I provide proof.. not that it was claimed but that it was true... from my position as Minister of Social Services or the OMbudsman or head of Centrelink.

Trumpoid...

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #111 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:48pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments.

And you believe them - seriously?

Why would I not?

The coalition is full of liars.

They have a track record of lying to cover up their lies.

Quote:

I know you have trouble accepting evidence not to your liking but there would be no motivation (or ability) to lie.

They are the worst, most incompetent government this nation has ever seen.

They need to start appearing to be actually doing something.

Of course they have the motivation to lie.

I'm calling 100% bullshit on their claim: they have not "already received around $300M in back payments".

If you think they have, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

Over to you ...

You just spent the last two months whining about Donald Trump and his lies and about how his idiot supporters believed anything that suited their personal beliefs. And then you do exactly the same thing.

What are you smoking, Longy.

You're the one who believes the government - not me.

So, where's your proof?

I'm calling bullshit on their claim.

If you say it's true, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

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Belgarion

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #112 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

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Belgarion

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #113 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:55pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:13pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

bullshit they are thieves ... the majority most likely made honest mistakes. The only thieves are the politicians.

WHy doesn't the govt. put this much effort into stopping politicians from rorting taxpayers with dodgy claims?

See above.....mistakes are made, but there are also those deliberately working the system. The politicians rorts are despicable, but are a separate issue.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #114 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

Longy, in his lovable childlike way says “garnering” but grownups know the word as “garnishee.”

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #115 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

You're making up crap again. You have no evidence to support this.

Also, Centrelink is a government department, not a payment. This is a mistake that is often made by people with a poor grasp of facts.

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #116 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:26pm

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

No evidence? I was aware of this problem a couple of years ago because I know someone who was involved in exposing fraudulent claimants in the child care industry. Although the automated system is not working as it should, it is catching more crooks than innocent people.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. That's fallacious. You need to provide links, not anecdotes.

You're also asserting it's catching more crooks than innocent people. Again, this is a claim you're making with no evidence.

Nobody is defending crooks. There's a huge fuss - including in the Murdoch press - precisely because a lot of people caught up in this aren't crooks.

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #117 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:04pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

Longy, in his lovable childlike way says “garnering” but grownups know the word as “garnishee.”

Your english is atrocious.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #118 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:05pm

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 6:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

they had already received around $300M in back payments

They are taking money out of peoples pay irrespective of if they actually owe any money.

actually, they are not. Garnering wages requires a bit more than a clerk simply asking for it to happen. Child support is garnered out of wages - when ordered. Some court ordered bankruptcy payments can also be thus. and so can centrelink AFTER all recovery actions have failed and a court grants it.

You might not know but all of these debts are for people not currently receiving centrelink. Those people are already paying from their existing payments.

You're making up crap again. You have no evidence to support this.

Also, Centrelink is a government department, not a payment. This is a mistake that is often made by people with a poor grasp of facts.

You mean when ever the media etc refer to people 'receiving centrelink' they dont know that the difference? Or anyone else for that matter, pedant?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 50413 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #119 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:06pm Go garnering.
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