Australian Politics Forum - The growing Centrelink debt scandal

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 50411 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #90 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:26pm No, the data matching is crap and that is beyond clear now so continuing with it is negligence or worse.
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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #91 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:24pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

You overstep the mark. It is true that Centrelink has stuffed up in a number of cases, but that is not ILLEGAl and no lawsuit would ever work.

It is illegal because social security law mandates fortnightly reporting but Centrelink is now disregarding that by calculating on annual income only. There are other laws in relation to the collection of debts and consumer law that is also been breached. If you think Centrelink aren't breaking the law, you're wilfully ignoring the facts.

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John Smith

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #92 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already

that doesn't mean they are thieves.

When they ask you to tell them how much you will earn this week or this year, you take a guess ... you won't know the exact figure until you've actually been paid, and by then it's to late, the form has been submitted. Have you tried calling them to let them know there is an adjustment? If the answer the phone within two hours you should buy yourself a lottery ticket.

I personally refuse to 'take guesses' and tell them to wait until I've finished my tax return at the end of the year for any allowances i might be able to claim. They then back pay me anything they owe me. If they owe me nothing, no one whinges. Least of all me

However that is not an option when one is unemployed or underemployed and reliant on the payments to get by day to day.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #93 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:55pm

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:24pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

You overstep the mark. It is true that Centrelink has stuffed up in a number of cases, but that is not ILLEGAl and no lawsuit would ever work.

It is illegal because social security law mandates fortnightly reporting but Centrelink is now disregarding that by calculating on annual income only. There are other laws in relation to the collection of debts and consumer law that is also been breached. If you think Centrelink aren't breaking the law, you're wilfully ignoring the facts.

You will find that social security REGULATIONS mandate such reporting. You are using the term 'law' incorrectly and impractically. There is zero case for a class action. Firstly, the number of errors - while pitiful - is still a small percentage and the errors are still no egregious but incompetent. If every company were to be sued for incompetence then the biggest industry around would be civil lawyers.

There is a big difference in being WRONG and being illegal.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #94 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:00pm

The Liberals are having a great time aren't they , one week ripping off pensioners and the next it is the unemployed.

No way they will try to get the wealthy or the multinationals to pay their tax.

People try to argue that the Liberals are not really like that but the proof is in the pudding. It is what they do - every time.

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #95 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:01pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already

that doesn't mean they are thieves.

When they ask you to tell them how much you will earn this week or this year, you take a guess ... you won't know the exact figure until you've actually been paid, and by then it's to late, the form has been submitted. Have you tried calling them to let them know there is an adjustment? If the answer the phone within two hours you should buy yourself a lottery ticket.

I personally refuse to 'take guesses' and tell them to wait until I've finished my tax return at the end of the year for any allowances i might be able to claim. They then back pay me anything they owe me. If they owe me nothing, no one whinges. Least of all me

However that is not an option when one is unemployed or underemployed and reliant on the payments to get by day to day.

It is still an OVER-payment and the majority have in fact, paid it back.

AS for 2 hours on queue.... I had to ring iinet today because they lost my credit card details. the queue was FIVE HOURS. I used the callback facility.

Worst ever was when ATO referred a debt of mine to Dunn and BRadstreet incorrectly. The 'callback' took THREE DAYS. The reason of course was because the ATO stuffed up about 100,000 tax files and then send them all to debt collection incorrectly. And this was done during the labor years - not that it should matter, but it does to the partisans here.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #96 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:02pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

The Liberals are having a great time aren't they , one week ripping off pensioners and the next it is the unemployed.

No way they will try to get the wealthy or the multinationals to pay their tax.

People try to argue that the Liberals are not really like that but the proof is in the pudding. It is what they do - every time.

99% of these people have genuiely been overpaid wither by error or false claims. Is that a problem to you?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #97 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 12:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 11:34am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 11:06am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:41am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 8:39am:

What about Jobs & Growth?

takes more than a 3 word phrase to create jobs ... turdball hasn't a clue how to go about it.

Turnbull hasn't got a clue what to do.

Not true - he knows exactly what he will do.

He's going to crush the unemployed

using them as scapegoats for the mess he's created.

I was going to just say nothing as usual.

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John Smith

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #98 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:01pm:

It is still an OVER-payment and the majority have in fact, paid it back.

no one said it wasn't an over payment ... I said that it didn't make them a thief. Let me know when you learn the meaning of the two words.

and I'd bet a fair portion of those that paid it back, paid it back because they didn't want to risk a fight with centrelink and not because they actually owed it

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #99 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm: They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already. Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.
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longweekend58

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #100 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments. I am no fan of Centrelink and this is a pitiful example of their incompetence, but they are still largely correct in these notices. The scandal is about the rather obviously wrong ones that they are sending out.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Bam

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #101 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:22pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:55pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:24pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

You overstep the mark. It is true that Centrelink has stuffed up in a number of cases, but that is not ILLEGAl and no lawsuit would ever work.

It is illegal because social security law mandates fortnightly reporting but Centrelink is now disregarding that by calculating on annual income only. There are other laws in relation to the collection of debts and consumer law that is also been breached. If you think Centrelink aren't breaking the law, you're wilfully ignoring the facts.

You will find that social security REGULATIONS mandate such reporting. You are using the term 'law' incorrectly and impractically. There is zero case for a class action. Firstly, the number of errors - while pitiful - is still a small percentage and the errors are still no egregious but incompetent. If every company were to be sued for incompetence then the biggest industry around would be civil lawyers.

There is a big difference in being WRONG and being illegal.

Yeah, you keep believing that your beloved Liberals could not possibly balls up something this badly.

Out in the real world though, Centrelink are acting outside the law thanks to a poorly-implemented matching system (income support is calculated fortnightly, not annually) and they have been misleading people for years. A Centrelink website that only "recommends" that people keep payslips for "six months" is not something that will indemnify Centrelink in the event of a lawsuit. If you can't figure this out you're either not particularly bright or your unwarranted idolisation of your beloved Liberals is blinding you to the truth.

The DAILY TELEGRAPH is on their case now. The fscking DAILY TELEGRAPH. If that's not enough to convince you that there's a problem you're hopeless.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #102 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:26pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:25pm:

They've gotten hundreds of millions back in over-payments already.

Bullshit. That's just the amount they've sent out. Most of these will be reduced, many of them to nothing or almost nothing.

In a press conference/release yesterday they said they had already received around $300M in back payments.

And you believe them - seriously?

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WN Full Member Offline The 14 words Posts: 153 Gender:	Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal Reply #103 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:30pm No bill here, just nice helpings of taxpayers money in my account every fortnight.
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Dnarever

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Re: The growing Centrelink debt scandal
Reply #104 - Jan 6^th, 2017 at 5:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:24pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 6^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Although the automated system is a problem, the majority of those complaining are thieves who have been caught out. They are using the errors in the system to claim a victim status they do not deserve.

That isn't true, and you've got no evidence to prove this.

If you read this thread, you'll find many examples where "debts" have been calculated by Centrelink incorrectly, in direct violation of social security law and the Department's own guidelines. Because it has broken the law and misled people, Centrelink isn't likely to prevail if it's sued in a class action lawsuit.

You overstep the mark. It is true that Centrelink has stuffed up in a number of cases, but that is not ILLEGAl and no lawsuit would ever work.

They are bullying people to take out loans to pay debts that do not exist ?

People are being referred to debt collectors and black listed when there is no debt ?

They are advising people to call the life line.

One question is putting this system into use and refusing to fix it or take it off line with the known problems constitute criminal negligence ?

What impact does acknowledging that you have put people at risk in advising the life line support because of a system that should never have got into operation with the significant flaws it has.

A team of 13 year olds used to test this system would have found the problems. It is difficult to call this just incompetence, there seems to be a genuine component of negligence.

Now where do we stand with a failed system and Centrelink and the government being too pig headed to do anything about it.

IMO the government and centrelink continuing with this system knowing the flaws is dishonest and malicious.

Centrelink sending out debt notices where they don't really know if there is a debt is more than problematic. You can not ask people to pay because you think they might owe you something.

Then they put the burden of proof on the customer to prove that they don't owe the money, they are basically sending people a bill for a debt they do not owe and then leaving it to the customer to prove the case for them.

I would think a group action would stand a very good chance, forcing people to pay money they do not owe I would call extortion.

A government department threatening people intimidating them to force them to pay a debt they don't owe is also not good enough.

In my view there should be a full enquiry into this it really is disgraceful.

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