Australian Politics Forum - The USA and China

NorthOfNorth

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The USA and China
Dec 17^th, 2016 at 9:42am

There was an old joke that did the rounds during the Soviet era...

Lenin's body, having been cryogenically frozen for almost 60 years, was transported to New York where medical science had advanced to the point where the doctors there could revive him... The operation went well and Lenin was now alive and heavily sedated but recuperating in his hospital bed. Early one morning, when no one was around, he woke suddenly and, confused, looked out the window at the Manhatten skyline... Realising he must have been out of it for some time, but thinking he was still in Moscow, exclaimed "Ah! The success of the Communist revolution! This is exactly how I imagined it would look!".

And now is Mao's turn to be the butt of that joke... Only its not a joke... China has succeeded beyond, even his, wildest expectations...

And 'beyond his wildest expectations'?? Likely not.

According to John Pilger in his latest film, 'The Coming War on China', Mao saw the US as a model for Chinese destiny and attempted 'detente', or at least a fair hearing with successive US Presidents, long before Nixon cottoned on to the importance of China.

And why? Because Mao saw that the same cultural 'genetic' instincts that drove Americans also drove the Chinese, such that: If the business of America is business, then so it is with China.

If Trump is bromancing Putin he shouldn't be 'sabre rattling' and baiting Xi Jinping... He should be buying him a ring and 'naming the day'!

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Melanias purse

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #1 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:53pm

Mao admired US technology, North, not its business. At one point, Mao tried getting the Chinese to use knives and forks rather than chopsticks. It never took off.

Mao strove to bleed the business instinct out of the Chinese. His main mission was to eradicate China of its "capitalist roaders". He imprisoned Deng Xiou Ping, and for good reason. Deng turned China into the opposite of what Mao struggled for.

Mao would look favourably on Chinese development today, but he would not like its entrepreneurism. Many in China don't. They see China being turned into a greedy, selfish, materialist society. Many look fondly on the fraternity that existed during socialism.

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Belgarion

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #2 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:57pm

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:53pm:

Mao admired US technology, North, not its business. At one point, Mao tried getting the Chinese to use knives and forks rather than chopsticks. It never took off.

Mao strove to bleed the business instinct out of the Chinese. His main mission was to eradicate China of its "capitalist roaders". He improsoned Deng Xiou Ping.

Mao would look favourably on Chinese development today, but he would not like its entrepreneurism. Many in China don't. They see China being turned into a greedy, selfish, materialist society. Many look fondly on the fraternity that existed during socialism.

The fraternity that existed during socialism? Where the local warlord was replaced by the local party cadre and nothing changed for the peasants at all except the name of the oppressors.

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Melanias purse

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #3 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:24pm

Belgarion wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:57pm:

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:53pm:

Mao admired US technology, North, not its business. At one point, Mao tried getting the Chinese to use knives and forks rather than chopsticks. It never took off.

Mao strove to bleed the business instinct out of the Chinese. His main mission was to eradicate China of its "capitalist roaders". He improsoned Deng Xiou Ping.

Mao would look favourably on Chinese development today, but he would not like its entrepreneurism. Many in China don't. They see China being turned into a greedy, selfish, materialist society. Many look fondly on the fraternity that existed during socialism.

The fraternity that existed during socialism? Where the local warlord was replaced by the local party cadre and nothing changed for the peasants at all except the name of the oppressors.

Yes, all that.

I must admit, I often look back fondly at 1980s Australia: a backward ex-colony full of corrupt premiers and crooked cops.

Mind you, we had a thriving music scene. We don't have that anymore. I'm sure the Chinese look back on their past with similar nostalgia.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #4 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:25pm

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:53pm:

Mao admired US technology, North, not its business. At one point, Mao tried getting the Chinese to use knives and forks rather than chopsticks. It never took off.

Mao strove to bleed the business instinct out of the Chinese. His main mission was to eradicate China of its "capitalist roaders". He imprisoned Deng Xiou Ping, and for good reason. Deng turned China into the opposite of what Mao struggled for.

Mao would look favourably on Chinese development today, but he would not like its entrepreneurism. Many in China don't. They see China being turned into a greedy, selfish, materialist society. Many look fondly on the fraternity that existed during socialism.

Yes, I guess the OP should refer to Mao/Deng...

Its ironic that if both were resurrected (as in the Lenin joke), they'd probably both lay claim to China's success for the same reason - the correctness of communism!

As for the fraternity... I think the two words that would put paid to any validity of that kind of nostalgia would be - Cultural Revolution.

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Melanias purse

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #5 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:33pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:25pm:

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 12:53pm:

Mao admired US technology, North, not its business. At one point, Mao tried getting the Chinese to use knives and forks rather than chopsticks. It never took off.

Mao strove to bleed the business instinct out of the Chinese. His main mission was to eradicate China of its "capitalist roaders". He imprisoned Deng Xiou Ping, and for good reason. Deng turned China into the opposite of what Mao struggled for.

Mao would look favourably on Chinese development today, but he would not like its entrepreneurism. Many in China don't. They see China being turned into a greedy, selfish, materialist society. Many look fondly on the fraternity that existed during socialism.

Yes, I guess the OP should refer to Mao/Deng...

Its ironic that if both were resurrected (as in the Lenin joke), they'd probably both lay claim to China's success for the same reason!

As for the fraternity... I think the two words that would put paid to any validity of that kind of nostalgia would be - Cultural Revolution.

You're right, North. China can claim both Mao and Deng. God knows where China would be if the KMT had stayed in power. Taiwan, perhaps, is a good idea, but the KMT could never have kept China together.

The cultural revolution jailed, killed or targeted about 1 in 4 people in the cities, I believe. A huge number, but it left three quarters of the population to sing Chairman Mao songs and read from the Little Red Book.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11064 Australia Gender:	Re: The USA and China Reply #6 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:39pm
Back to top	1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax 2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos IP Logged

NorthOfNorth

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #7 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:42pm

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

but it left three quarters of the population to sing Chairman Mao songs and read from the Little Red Book.

Well, I guess its true to say, with regard to the phenomenon of nostalgia, that the circumstances of the times, regardless of what they are, lend themselves to turning golden with time, even if the circumstances of the times include, literally, getting away with murder.

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Melanias purse

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Re: The USA and China
Reply #8 - Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:45pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:42pm:

Melanias purse wrote on Dec 17^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

but it left three quarters of the population to sing Chairman Mao songs and read from the Little Red Book.

Well, I guess its true to say, with regard to the phenomenon of nostalgia, that the circumstances of the times, regardless of what they are, lend themselves to turning golden with time, even if the circumstances of the times include, literally, getting away with murder.

Indeed.

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