Australian Politics Forum - What is the point of an election?

Raven

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What is the point of an election?
Nov 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm

The Constitution lets the electoral college choose the winner. The Constitutional framers believed, as Alexander Hamilton put it, that “the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the president.” But no nation had ever tried that idea before. So the framers created a safety valve on the people’s choice. Like a judge reviewing a jury verdict, where the people voted, the electoral college was intended to confirm — or not — the people’s choice.

Electors were to apply, in Hamilton’s words, “a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice” — and then decide. The Constitution says nothing about “winner take all.” It says nothing to suggest that electors’ freedom should be constrained in any way. Instead, their wisdom — about whether to overrule “the people” or not — was to be free of political control yet guided by democratic values. They were to be citizens exercising judgment, not cogs turning a wheel.

Essentially they can ignore the election and cast their vote for any candidate.

Say the College representatives from Florida and Pennsylvania decide to cast their vote for Clinton. Then Mr Trump is no longer President Elect.

It's happened before. In 1888 Benjamin Harrison lost the popular vote to Grover Cleveland but won in the electoral college, only because Boss Tweed’s Tammany Hall turned New York away from the reformer Cleveland.

Should a senario play out that hands Clinton the election, she by far won the popular vote, the protests seen around America will explode into potential violence.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #1 - Nov 25^th, 2016 at 11:14pm Raven wrote on Nov 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm: Essentially they can ignore the election and cast their vote for any candidate. I understood that only applied to about 22 states. The others are required by law to follow the voters directions
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Amadd

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Re: What is the point of an election?
Reply #2 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 1:01am

It's logical that there needs to be reps. handling specific areas who can be a voice in parliament.

We have "seats", MP's. Pretty much the same thing as the electoral college.

I agree with Trump that if it was about total votes, then he would have campaigned differently.

No sour grapes. The system and the rules have been in place for a long long time.

The feminist rival failed where a drover's dog could win.

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« Last Edit: Nov 26^th, 2016 at 3:42pm by Amadd »

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Bias_2012

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Re: What is the point of an election?
Reply #3 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 2:11am

Amadd wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 1:01am:

I agree with Trump that if it was about total votes, then he would have campaigned differently.

He would have had no choice but to campaign differently, and so would Clinton. But in my opinion, Clinton actually did campaign that way, thinking she'd also reach 270 as well, on the back of high total vote which she knew she was going to receive in the so-called "popular" vote

As far as the Electoral College goes, there was never meant to be factions or political parties in the process. The two major parties have taken over the E/Colleges throughout the States and essentially corrupted the system. Perhaps the Colleges should go back to being impartial and independent, as much as they can be vetted that way, given all the special interests

I think all the griping by the losers that's taking place is because they see their worldwide humanist socialist politics as the only politics that should exist and they've become so accustomed to it's cosy comfortable arrangements that they think there just can't be any other politics. They're in for a shock if ever the global economy collapses

So, it's probably corruption of the processes, lack of knowledge on the part of voters these days, and party politics, that's causing the discontent

Having said all this, I wish Australia had a better system than what we've got, that would finally eliminate the useless National Party from the political scene

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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14710 Colorado Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #4 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 4:41am To keep Americans duped that they are living in a "democracy"
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #5 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 6:51am Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 4:41am: To keep Americans duped that they are living in a "democracy" exactly.. we think our voice is being heard... or something like that .. we are told who wins. .. .. I believe they run tatts lotto in a more convincing manner.
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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #6 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 11:01am Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 4:41am: To keep Americans duped that they are living in a "democracy" It is a democracy. It might be flawed, but is still democratic. Free and open elections are the proof thereof - not the election of someone you (rightly) despise.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: What is the point of an election?
Reply #7 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 11:57am

Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 2:11am:

I think all the griping by the losers that's taking place is because they see their worldwide humanist socialist politics as the only politics that should exist and they've become so accustomed to it's cosy comfortable arrangements that they think there just can't be any other politics. They're in for a shock if ever the global economy collapses

Yep. It makes a mockery of their slogans of 'diversity' and 'tolerance'.

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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14710 Colorado Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #8 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:01pm longweekend58 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 11:01am: It is a democracy. It might be flawed, but is still democratic. Free and open elections are the proof thereof - not the election of someone you (rightly) despise. Oh, that is so damn f--ing funny. You keep on believing in that, fool.
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Mr Hammer

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Re: What is the point of an election?
Reply #9 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:02pm

Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 11:01am:

It is a democracy. It might be flawed, but is still democratic. Free and open elections are the proof thereof - not the election of someone you (rightly) despise.

Oh, that is so dam you-king funny. You keep on believing in that, fool.

If your country is such as basket case then why were you all so angry about change (Trump)?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: What is the point of an election?
Reply #10 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:03pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:02pm:

Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 11:01am:

It is a democracy. It might be flawed, but is still democratic. Free and open elections are the proof thereof - not the election of someone you (rightly) despise.

Oh, that is so dam you-king funny. You keep on believing in that, fool.

If your country is such as basket case then why were you all so angry about change (Trump)?

"change"?

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14710 Colorado Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #11 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:03pm Trump is change? Now you're just being insulting.
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #12 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:05pm Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:03pm: Trump is change? Now you're just being insulting. He's certainly not in the same mould as the succession of other liars you have had.
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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14710 Colorado Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #13 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:07pm Yeah, he pretty much is.
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: What is the point of an election? Reply #14 - Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:13pm Marla wrote on Nov 26^th, 2016 at 12:07pm: Yeah, he pretty much is. Why would you want to stay with the people who haven't fixed America? The same people who spent 3 trillion of your money on two silly wars that could have repaired your country twice over?
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