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True Lies, Trump and the art of the con (Read 4605 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #30 - Nov 5th, 2016 at 10:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 5th, 2016 at 9:51pm:
Americans hunger for war?? You are deranged.


War is almost the sole source of energy of the American psyche...

Any President who can define himself as a 'wartime President' has done so... For the primary reason that the American people approve of and highly rate wartime Presidents (its what ultimately got Johnson into so much trouble and drove him from the White House).

Its when a wartime President does not deliver victory, is when we see the degree to which Americans perceive their cultural paradox... Its then that the people's mood swings towards peace... So long as no President actually delivers it (note Carter and, to a lesser extent, Obama)... What the people really want is victory... Even if it needs to be in another war.

Obama is one president who has attempted to deliver peace by extricating the US from war - by stealth... On the one hand, he's the 'drone bomb' president yet at the same time he has reduced US participation in Middle eastern and Afghanistan wars, has initiated the beginning of the end of Cuba's ostracism and has (honestly) argued for less US participation in wars... For his peace efforts he has largely endured contempt, though not as much as Carter did (who trumpeted his peace-making efforts from rooftops - naively thinking that's what the people wanted and that he'd be thanked for it)...

To be fair to Obama, I think he was genuinely perplexed at his Nobel Prize for Peace (although not as much as Kissinger should have been).

A martial people like Americans have need of highly experienced governors who have the wisdom to navigate away from war while not appearing to be weak (or crazed)...

Despite his gross inexperience, Trump's personality is too damaged to offer the US anything but destruction.

He is a man who cannot help but let his fragile ego and personal mental disorders to guide and inform his actions.

War for Trump would more likely start because his ego was bruised by a world leader than by a reasoned weighing of the alternatives.
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Richdude
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #31 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 1:30am
 
North you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Americans are no more militaristic than any other country I have lived in. America is generally a pleasant and peaceful country. The difference here is that the media is always dreaming up new threats. Communism, terrorism, China, North Korea and now Russian aggression. The American people are constantly brainwashed that they are under threat. The media is just a propaganda tool of corporate interests and those wishing to further consolidate and centralize World control.

Trump is refreshingly honest and straightforward - not PC. Perhaps its you that has the problem?
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #32 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 2:11am
 
Richdude wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 1:30am:

Americans are no more militaristic than any other country I have lived in. America is generally a pleasant and peaceful country. The difference here is that the media is always dreaming up new threats. Communism, terrorism, China, North Korea and now Russian aggression. The American people are constantly brainwashed that they are under threat. The media is just a propaganda tool of corporate interests and those wishing to further consolidate and centralize World control.


Bingo. The biggest drum-beater in the last war was Fox News and News Ltd.

Murdoch might have a US passport, but he still talks like an Australian.

The media is a propaganda tool of corporate interests who happen to be based in Amerika. World control is based in the US, as every schoolboy knows.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #33 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 3:52am
 
Richdude wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 1:30am:
North you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Americans are no more militaristic than any other country I have lived in. America is generally a pleasant and peaceful country. The difference here is that the media is always dreaming up new threats. Communism, terrorism, China, North Korea and now Russian aggression. The American people are constantly brainwashed that they are under threat. The media is just a propaganda tool of corporate interests and those wishing to further consolidate and centralize World control.

Trump is refreshingly honest and straightforward - not PC. Perhaps its you that has the problem?

Ah the media... Once the great protector of the people from government excess and arrogance, now the  'great satan'.

From first amendment to fifth column! Quite a fall!

Doesn't explain the blind stupid love affair with the second amendment  and its literal murderously psychopathic interpretation... But then again I guess it's not the people here either... Just the evil NRA...

And then there's the American perversion of Christianity into militant uber-religiosity... Media again?

And never mind the theme of violent racism that has dogged American history for so long... Or is that another media beat up?

What does it say of a great people and a great society that they can be so easily terrified of almost anything that goes bump in the night?

Trump? Refreshingly honest? You mean he really is going to build a wall to keep out Mexicans cos y'know... They really are all rapists...

Maybe it's you who have been brainwashed by a famous American archetype... The travelling snake oil salesman... Cos, according to one of them, in America there's a sucker born every minute...

Are you a sucker for a gross bullshit artist? And before you answer no, ask yourself, in the context of being American, how you would know that you're not.


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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #34 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 5:01am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 4th, 2016 at 7:43am:
"When you look at West Virginia and coal mining, it's a traditionally white community, it's a traditionally lesser educated state and Trump is promising to take things back to the good old days and I think that's what everyone wants here."




There was an article in the limey Guardian that noted that life expectancy in McDowell County, West Virginia, once the heart of US coal mining, has declined to that of Ethiopia.




As for the candidates, Hillary represent nothing more than Wall Street as well as the military-intelligence and they are both supported by the complacent and self-satisfied upper, upper middle class in this country which such social bullshit where identity politics holds sway. Her whole smacking program is to outwardly direct the social crisis in the form of intensified US military violence starting with the Middle East then Russia and and eventually China, both of which possess nuclear arsenals.

The dayglo orange fat boy represents an attempt to direct social tensions along extreme nationalist lines, appealing to largely uneducated white trash, racist and fascistic forces all under false pretense to have opposed US military interventions in the Middle East while at the same time kissing ass to the US military and promises to unleash unlimited violence on any country that resists growing US imperialism. His insane pledge to “Make America Great Again” is little more than the English translation of Hitler’s slogan, Deutschland Über Alles.

...
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #35 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 8:03am
 
Marla wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 5:01am:
As for the candidates, Hillary represent nothing more than Wall Street as well as the military-intelligence and they are both supported by the complacent and self-satisfied upper, upper middle class in this country which such social bullshit where identity politics holds sway. Her whole smacking program is to outwardly direct the social crisis in the form of intensified US military violence starting with the Middle East then Russia and and eventually China, both of which possess nuclear arsenals.

The dayglo orange fat boy represents an attempt to direct social tensions along extreme nationalist lines, appealing to largely uneducated white trash, racist and fascistic forces all under false pretense to have opposed US military interventions in the Middle East while at the same time kissing ass to the US military and promises to unleash unlimited violence on any country that resists growing US imperialism. His insane pledge to “Make America Great Again” is little more than the English translation of Hitler’s slogan, Deutschland Über Alles.


Yes... A grim outlook...

Although the US will very soon no longer be the lone player at the superpowers' table... If not managed by someone with experience, the next 10 years could be hell for western democracy.

Russia is determined to roll back NATO dominance so close to its borders and Putin sees it virtually as an act of war that NATO's and Western Europe's influence is already at Russia's doorstep.

China is determined to 'take possession' of the western Pacific which means for them, without reservation, that the US must leave.

Russia and China are the new (re) contenders for world supremacy (with India currently a distant fourth) and conflict (either by the pen or the sword) is inevitable.

It will likely not be the US that throws down the gauntlet (or even fires the first shot)... But, however it begins, the US will be called to arms or diplomacy...

Arms or diplomacy against Russian or Chinese expansionism...

Who would you want to lead the western (arguably the free) world?
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Frank
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #36 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 12:15pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 8:03am:
Marla wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 5:01am:
As for the candidates, Hillary represent nothing more than Wall Street as well as the military-intelligence and they are both supported by the complacent and self-satisfied upper, upper middle class in this country which such social bullshit where identity politics holds sway. Her whole smacking program is to outwardly direct the social crisis in the form of intensified US military violence starting with the Middle East then Russia and and eventually China, both of which possess nuclear arsenals.

The dayglo orange fat boy represents an attempt to direct social tensions along extreme nationalist lines, appealing to largely uneducated white trash, racist and fascistic forces all under false pretense to have opposed US military interventions in the Middle East while at the same time kissing ass to the US military and promises to unleash unlimited violence on any country that resists growing US imperialism. His insane pledge to “Make America Great Again” is little more than the English translation of Hitler’s slogan, Deutschland Über Alles.


Yes... A grim outlook...

Although the US will very soon no longer be the lone player at the superpowers' table... If not managed by someone with experience, the next 10 years could be hell for western democracy.

Russia is determined to roll back NATO dominance so close to its borders and Putin sees it virtually as an act of war that NATO's and Western Europe's influence is already at Russia's doorstep.

China is determined to 'take possession' of the western Pacific which means for them, without reservation, that the US must leave.

Russia and China are the new (re) contenders for world supremacy (with India currently a distant fourth) and conflict (either by the pen or the sword) is inevitable.

It will likely not be the US that throws down the gauntlet (or even fires the first shot)... But, however it begins, the US will be called to arms or diplomacy...

Arms or diplomacy against Russian or Chinese expansionism...

Who would you want to lead the western (arguably the free) world?



Well, NOT a corrupt, unprincipled, two-faced, grasping, cynical sick old woman who projects surrender, sells out American diplomatic staff, peddles influence for mere cash.

So NOT Hilary, then.


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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #37 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 2:57pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 12:15pm:
Well, NOT a corrupt, unprincipled, two-faced, grasping, cynical sick old woman who projects surrender, sells out American diplomatic staff, peddles influence for mere cash.

So NOT Hilary, then.



Hmmm... Methinks the superannuated doth misogynate too much...

Trump lies over 70% of the time... Doesn't that qualify more unprincipled, two-faced, grasping and cynical?


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Frank
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #38 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 3:53pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 2:57pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 12:15pm:
Well, NOT a corrupt, unprincipled, two-faced, grasping, cynical sick old woman who projects surrender, sells out American diplomatic staff, peddles influence for mere cash.

So NOT Hilary, then.



Hmmm... Methinks the superannuated doth misogynate too much...

Trump lies over 70% of the time... Doesn't that qualify more unprincipled, two-faced, grasping and cynical?





Over 70%, eh??

You are completely discombobulated.

In this election campaign Trump has not been cynical or grasping or even unprincipled or two-faced. He has not said that he would build a wall and then behind closed door say to his donors that he wanted an open borders world.

The thing about Trump is that he is going to do what he is saying - because he has absolutely zero interest in not keeping his word. There is no 30 years' worth of political favours and donations to protect and nurture.

In April 2000 Bill's Arkansas law licence was suspended for five years and he was given a $25,000 fine. He had agreed to that disbarment as a form of plea bargain on the day before he left office in January 2000, after reaching a deal to bring an end to the Lewinsky investigation, in which he could have faced charges for contempt. In October 2001 the US supreme court disbarred him practicing law before the high court. Hill became a NY Senator, then Secretary of State. Salary for both? About $200K p.s.

Today they are worth over $100 million. By comparison, George Dubya is worth $20 million (which he has before he became president).

How did they do it?



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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #39 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 4:42pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 3:53pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 2:57pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 12:15pm:
Well, NOT a corrupt, unprincipled, two-faced, grasping, cynical sick old woman who projects surrender, sells out American diplomatic staff, peddles influence for mere cash.

So NOT Hilary, then.



Hmmm... Methinks the superannuated doth misogynate too much...

Trump lies over 70% of the time... Doesn't that qualify more unprincipled, two-faced, grasping and cynical?





Over 70%, eh??

You are completely discombobulated.

In this election campaign Trump has not been cynical or grasping or even unprincipled or two-faced. He has not said that he would build a wall and then behind closed door say to his donors that he wanted an open borders world.

The thing about Trump is that he is going to do what he is saying - because he has absolutely zero interest in not keeping his word. There is no 30 years' worth of political favours and donations to protect and nurture.

And you know what he says behind closed doors because....?

So... Trump has made no political promises over 30 years,Trump has no experience in politics, therefore Trump will keep his political promises?

If trump had no interest in lying... Why has he lied 70% of the time?

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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #40 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:15pm
 
Is that a Granuiad 70% or an ABC 70%? CNN?

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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #41 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:39pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:15pm:
Is that a Granuiad 70% or an ABC 70%? CNN?


Out of 'yes but, no but' ?

Let's go with the larest of Trump lies... Made all the worse because it exploits the blind stupid mindsets of his most blood simple supporters...

Trump Says Hillary Clinton "wants to let people just pour in. You could have 650 million people pour in and we do nothing about it. Think of it. That’s what could happen. You triple the size of our country in one week."
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #42 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 7:48pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:39pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:15pm:
Is that a Granuiad 70% or an ABC 70%? CNN?


Out of 'yes but, no but' ?

Let's go with the larest of Trump lies... Made all the worse because it exploits the blind stupid mindsets of his most blood simple supporters...

Trump Says Hillary Clinton "wants to let people just pour in. You could have 650 million people pour in and we do nothing about it. Think of it. That’s what could happen. You triple the size of our country in one week."

Rhetorical flourish.

She is for open borders: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/

Or this;
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, sometime in the future with energy that's as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere," Clinton reportedly said to investors in a paid speech she gave to Brazilian Banco Itau in 2013.

Here's the thing about borders. If you don't have borders, you don't have a country. Americans are beginning to understand this. Europeans understand it now, quite clearly.

Clinton's dream also includes a Western Hemispheric common market, like the European common market that is dissolving in chaos, fear and debt.

If that is indeed her dream, then she dreams the internationalist dream that would end America. But Americans aren't talking about this, perhaps because there is no video involving sex and Hollywood and Trump.

I would love to hear Clinton's explanation. Perhaps she could put it in some proper context.

Or perhaps she was merely telling the Brazilians something they wanted to hear, because they were paying her a good chunk of cash.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-hillary-clinton-open-borde...
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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #43 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 8:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 7:48pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:39pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 6:15pm:
Is that a Granuiad 70% or an ABC 70%? CNN?


Out of 'yes but, no but' ?

Let's go with the larest of Trump lies... Made all the worse because it exploits the blind stupid mindsets of his most blood simple supporters...

Trump Says Hillary Clinton "wants to let people just pour in. You could have 650 million people pour in and we do nothing about it. Think of it. That’s what could happen. You triple the size of our country in one week."

Rhetorical flourish.

No... Not a rhetorical flourish... Rhetorical flourish stops way before that..

This is a blatant lie spoken to alarm the most stupid and blood simple of his supporters.

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Re: True Lies, Trump and the art of the con
Reply #44 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 8:03pm
 
Richdude wrote on Nov 6th, 2016 at 1:30am:
North you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Americans are no more militaristic than any other country I have lived in. America is generally a pleasant and peaceful country. The difference here is that the media is always dreaming up new threats. Communism, terrorism, China, North Korea and now Russian aggression. The American people are constantly brainwashed that they are under threat. The media is just a propaganda tool of corporate interests and those wishing to further consolidate and centralize World control.

Trump is refreshingly honest and straightforward - not PC. Perhaps its you that has the problem?



you also have the powerful gun lobby over there that seems to have far too much POWER...lets face it its the guns that are made in America that are doing great in the M.E.....

I have to admit.. not that I would vote for him but he does say some truths.. like why do America step up... all the time.. and yet never get paid for it..... the first country that is asked for help is always America...they get bugger all thanks for it.. and all the blame when it goes pearshaped like it always does in Africa and the M.E.. always goes pearshaped..they all  hate each others guts...and they always want a Western country to fight their battles... while their lords and chiefs live in luxury bleeding the country dry.....

does it stop terrorists taking over... not that I see..

the CLinton Foundation is a thorough sham...I would imagine the Clintons themselves receive the largest donations from it...an absolute disgrace...as for the emails.. as a 30 yr veteran of politics.. it makes it even harder to believe she is what she claims to be..

I wonder if she takes any responsibility for the state of Libya which is the new terrorist hideout...
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