No one here is saying there is no political element.

Gordon wrote on Nov 21^st, 2016 at 3:02pm:


you sure about that? FD seems to think it's all the fault of the Koran.

Gordon wrote on Nov 21^st, 2016 at 3:23pm:


so now your saying it's not political, it's back to Islam .... make up your mind.

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2016 at 1:50pm:



No one has ever denied that there aren't fanatics who use Islam to their own ends. That's not Islams fault, that's the dickheads doing the brainwashing.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 21^st, 2016 at 3:36pm:



yet hundreds of millions of Muslims seem quiet comfortable to pick and choose . 

The apologists here believe this is a political charge, FD, not a religious one. Islam is simply being used by Ahok's enemies in an attempt to get him voted out of office.

Is it ridiculous? Sure. Ahok himself has pointed this out. And for his sins, he got the blasphemy charge. The apologists here don't think such a charge could ever be upheld in a court, as Ahok himself believes.

The apologists also believe that the protesters against Ahok have either political motives, or were paid 50,000 rupiah to turn up. One protester came out to say this.

Ahok has enemies in two camps: those he has targeted for corruption in public office, and those made homeless through slum-clearance. His enemies are therefore a mix of both rich and poor.

Ahok's supporters have been compared to the Thai Yellow Shirt protesters: middle-class anti-corruption advocates.

Islam here is seen as a distraction, and mere religious posturing. The imams who've called for Ahok's dismissal have been appealing to Muslim voters. Presumably, the blasphemy prosecution has been made by their allies in the police.

No one's excusing the fanatical imams who argue that Muslims can't be led by infidels, but they are part of a wider campaign against Ahok. It is arguable that they would find similar arguments to use against Ahok even if he was a Muslim, but Ahok is also ethnic Chinese - an unpopular group in some parts of Indonesia.

The Chinese have been targeted by a range of regimes, including Sukarno and Suharto. Anti-Chinese sentiment in Indonesia, like Australia, reflects a backlash against growing Chinese investment. This investment has driven much of Jakarta's growth. Muslim groups in Indonesia are taking up the cause of sovereignty, in much the same way Trump is doing so in the US, or Pauline Hanson is doing in Australia.

These are the issues your I-blame-Islam stance ignores. Sure the imams and their protesters are using ridiculous Islamic arguments to criticize Ahok, but your own arguments are equally mindless. Your stance ignores the social and political nuances in this debate. The old boy asks whether you should discuss such topics without any knowledge of these local issues. You already know my answer to this.

I am, as they say, a devious apologist. I blame politics. You, as always, blame Islam.

As ever, the truth lies somewhere in between. Always absolutely never ever, no?

John Smith wrote on Nov 21^st, 2016 at 3:40pm:


Falah was a muslim who posted here he said muslims cannot pick and choose which parts they follow.

You just plucked a number from your ass cite evidence to back your claim