Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 16
Send Topic Print
Typical regressive left gets it wrong again (Read 22066 times)
FD
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 100361
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #75 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:20pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:16pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:18pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:10pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:50pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:48pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:17pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:06pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:00pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:55pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:49pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 4:56pm:
Or lets ask about what the vast majority of non-muslim Australians feel about muslims - overall positive or negative (hint, 75% = positive). Really, lets be honest about it, and then we can address the issue of who is "winning the propaganda war".


We can be honest, in view of the impotence articulated by you of the vast majority,  do you anticipate that the many headlines at the hands of the tiny minority will erode the 75% positive rating? 



Would that be the vast majority who have contacted authorities and gotten a range of Jihadists on Federal Police watch lists?

Would it be the vast majority who contacted the police about Man Monis? The vast majority who dobbed in that knife-wielding Afghan in Melbourne? Or how about the vast majority who are regularly  onto the blower with police, police who have built a significant working rapport with the Muslim community according to the Director of ASIO?

Which vast majority do you mean? Honky doesn't want to say.


The vast majority of millions who cannot organise a counter rally in a public park the following week. Or any week after the tiny minority leave a bloody wake in Islams name.   

Thinking you are winning points on a forum doesn't win the war of perceptions. 


Yes, but millions of who?

Which club?


Do you have a quota of posts that you need to fill everyday?   Roll Eyes


Gee, you're not saying either. I understand. You must be fearful.

How about you, Gordon?


The millions of moderate Muslims, I thought that was clear from my posts.

I generally ignore your stuff because it is usually (and there are thousands and thousands of your usuallys) either non sequiturs, reducto ad absurdums, diversionary satire, or pointless and repetitive sound bites.

Miam  miam innit.  Roll Eyes

You have too much free time obviously. 



Yes, but what should we pologists do, Secret? We work with moderate Muslims, use moderate Muslim.services and businesses. Some of our best friends are even.moderate Muslims. Moderate Muslims are on our team.

As Honky says, different teams can’t possibly live in the same country. Do you think we should join your team?

How can you get us to join in?


How do the moderate Muslims you live and work with explain polygyny as dictated by Allah?


I doubt they’d even know. Would they blush if I asked?

Should I take the risk and try?


So they haven't read the koran?


I don’t know.

Have you?


No, but I don't claim to be a moderate Muslim who shares compatible liberal values.

Best you check, karnal, before trying to use people you know as examples, no?


Perhaps you could vet my co-workers for suitability.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #76 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:39pm
 
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:20pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:16pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:18pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 8:10pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:50pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:48pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:17pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:06pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 6:00pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:55pm:
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:49pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 5:38pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 4:56pm:
Or lets ask about what the vast majority of non-muslim Australians feel about muslims - overall positive or negative (hint, 75% = positive). Really, lets be honest about it, and then we can address the issue of who is "winning the propaganda war".


We can be honest, in view of the impotence articulated by you of the vast majority,  do you anticipate that the many headlines at the hands of the tiny minority will erode the 75% positive rating? 



Would that be the vast majority who have contacted authorities and gotten a range of Jihadists on Federal Police watch lists?

Would it be the vast majority who contacted the police about Man Monis? The vast majority who dobbed in that knife-wielding Afghan in Melbourne? Or how about the vast majority who are regularly  onto the blower with police, police who have built a significant working rapport with the Muslim community according to the Director of ASIO?

Which vast majority do you mean? Honky doesn't want to say.


The vast majority of millions who cannot organise a counter rally in a public park the following week. Or any week after the tiny minority leave a bloody wake in Islams name.   

Thinking you are winning points on a forum doesn't win the war of perceptions. 


Yes, but millions of who?

Which club?


Do you have a quota of posts that you need to fill everyday?   Roll Eyes


Gee, you're not saying either. I understand. You must be fearful.

How about you, Gordon?


The millions of moderate Muslims, I thought that was clear from my posts.

I generally ignore your stuff because it is usually (and there are thousands and thousands of your usuallys) either non sequiturs, reducto ad absurdums, diversionary satire, or pointless and repetitive sound bites.

Miam  miam innit.  Roll Eyes

You have too much free time obviously. 



Yes, but what should we pologists do, Secret? We work with moderate Muslims, use moderate Muslim.services and businesses. Some of our best friends are even.moderate Muslims. Moderate Muslims are on our team.

As Honky says, different teams can’t possibly live in the same country. Do you think we should join your team?

How can you get us to join in?


How do the moderate Muslims you live and work with explain polygyny as dictated by Allah?


I doubt they’d even know. Would they blush if I asked?

Should I take the risk and try?


So they haven't read the koran?


I don’t know.

Have you?


No, but I don't claim to be a moderate Muslim who shares compatible liberal values.

Best you check, karnal, before trying to use people you know as examples, no?


Perhaps you could vet my co-workers for suitability.


Perhaps you shouldn't use anecdotal evidence, especially when you don't even know of its accuracy?

Shame karnal shame.  Wink
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #77 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:44pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm:
Anyway, even if we were to take this "interpretation" of what Allah said, we are still left in an incompatible situation with liberal values because the decisions are by the men and not by consenting adults, or even the state.


Thats your baseless assumption.

In fact I give give you a stack of quotes that promotes the importance of marriage being based on consent and mutual respect.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #78 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:53pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:13pm:
Anyway, even if we were to take this "interpretation" of what Allah said, we are still left in an incompatible situation with liberal values because the decisions are by the men and not by consenting adults, or even the state.


Thats your baseless assumption.

In fact I give give you a stack of quotes that promotes the importance of marriage being based on consent and mutual respect.


Hardly baseless, Gandalf, I'm simply reading the quotes you yourself provided and the many translations of the Koran that have specifically different words then the one you provided.  any relationship should of course be based on mutual respect, and I honestly hope that one day we can get to an Islam where we recognise all the crap about temporary wives, polygyny, ownership of women, is interpreted in a historical context and done away with, as opposed to "the word of Allah."  But as it stands, even your translation of polygyny which removes a passage (at least which in aware of) abd replaces key words, is not compatible with liberal values.  Why? Because in a liberal world we strive for equality amongst both men and women, and therefore we can never have the thinking that a man may take on additional wives under a situation, but a woman cannot have additional husbands under the same situation.  I'm not opposed to polygamy if one can guarantee all parties consent freely. But polygyny? It's crap, no matter what "good intentions" you try to paint.

Islam needs to be reforms and to start we must end this notion that the teachings are the word of Allah.  It's our only way towards open borders and proper multiculturism.  And that's what the khans should be arguing for, not yelling at a nauseating ginger haired raccoon.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #79 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 10:15pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:53pm:
Because in a liberal world we strive for equality amongst both men and women, and therefore we can never have the thinking that a man may take on additional wives under a situation


As I already said, there is no conceivable situation in a modern liberal society where it could ever be justified.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #80 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 10:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 10:15pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 9:53pm:
Because in a liberal world we strive for equality amongst both men and women, and therefore we can never have the thinking that a man may take on additional wives under a situation


As I already said, there is no conceivable situation in a modern liberal society where it could ever be justified.

Now that's a baseless assumption!  Wink

While permitted there is every chance of regression.  And it has ramifications on liberal
Values even if the situation may not arise. Simply put, having a clause that allows polygyny still highlights men in a superior light to women as the provider figure in a family situation.  That is not compatible, Gandalf.  it's not relevant that you think the situation may not arise in the western world (although I disagree), what's relevant is the other ramifications of the allowance for polygyny but not polyandry, which digs deep into people's personal value systems.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2016 at 10:30pm by sir prince duke alevine »  

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
FD
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 100361
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #81 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:09pm
 
You’ll need to get cracking on Hinduism, Alevine. When you’re done with that, move onto Buddhism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism.

All traditional societies and religious texts place men above women.

Ask FD. He was a champion of women’s rights for a few weeks last year. He fought some important battles on behalf of women, all of whom just happened to be Muslims.

FD, you see, can be quite the pacifist when he wants to be.

Typical.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:18pm by FD »  
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #82 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:14pm
 
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:09pm:
You’ll need to get cracking on Hinduism, Alevine. When you’re done with that, move onto Buddhism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism.

All traditional societies and religious texts place men above women.

Ask FD. He was a champion of women’s rights for a few weeks last year. He fought some important battles on behalf of women, all of whom just happened to be Muslims.

FD, you see, can be quite the pacifist when he wants to be.



Ah the typical deflection from our deflection King, karnal.  I'm simply using one example of how Islamic teachings are not compatible with liberal values. I'm sure all religions have their problems but it's not even close to the same as with Islam, karnal.  But keep deflecting - I think you forgot to tell me about how we also have abuse of women in the western world so therefore I shouldn't worry about the abuses in Islam, right?  Typical regressive.  Shame, karnal, shame.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #83 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:17pm
 
Interestingly karnal, what does india say about polygamy? You'll need to do a bit of reading Wink
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
FD
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 100361
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #84 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:23pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:17pm:
Interestingly karnal, what does india say about polygamy? You'll need to do a bit of reading Wink


I’m not sure. I thought you only raised the topic of polygamy in an attempt to trip up G.

Try the 1200 Jews Moh Kiilled in a day. It always works for FD.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #85 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:30pm
 
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:23pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:17pm:
Interestingly karnal, what does india say about polygamy? You'll need to do a bit of reading Wink


I’m not sure. I thought you only raised the topic of polygamy in an attempt to trip up G.

Try the 1200 Jews Moh Kiilled in a day. It always works for FD.


I'm not trying to trip up anyone, karnal.  I'm simply making the point that it's very easy to say that Islam is compliant with liberal values, but when you put the texts to the test in actual fact they fail. This is but one example.  And all I'm saying is that if Islam is to comply with liberal values then the first reform that needs to take place is to get away from the belief that the Koran is the literal word of God, and use the scriptures in historical context, as they should be used, to allow for proper reinterpretation.  Which is what inevitably will ensure that the trumps and hansons of this world cease to exist as opposed to the other way around where you regressives continue to try and ignore and instead tell us how everything is inevitably compatible and in cases where there are actual problems then we shouldn't speak of them as we aren't Muslim and we aren't being understanding of the "cultural differences."

Anyway, while on the subject, India doesn't allow polygamy other than for the Muslim population. Surprise surprise - is that the society you wish to live in?
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
FD
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 100361
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #86 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:36pm
 
Ever read the Old Testament?

And yet, Israel is one of the world’s more liberal societies.

I blame Yehova, but that’s just me.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
FD
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 100361
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #87 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:44pm
 
Hang on, did you just say India doesn’t allow polygamy - but it does?

Sounds pretty liberal to me. More liberal than most Muslim countries too.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #88 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:47pm
 
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:36pm:
Ever read the Old Testament?

And yet, Israel is one of the world’s more liberal societies.

I blame Yehova, but that’s just me.


A great article on Judiasm.

But alas, you won't read it will you Sad. It's okay karnal, you can listen to it too!

Https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/why-dont-I-criticize-Israel



Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #89 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:48pm
 
FD wrote on Aug 3rd, 2016 at 11:44pm:
Hang on, did you just say India doesn’t allow polygamy - but it does?

Sounds pretty liberal to me. More liberal than most Muslim countries too.

Shame karnal shame.  can a Muslim woman in India marry 4 men?
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 16
Send Topic Print