Australian Politics Forum - Typical regressive left gets it wrong again

Gordon

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21626
Gordon
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #135 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:49am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

No, sam harris is not anti islam, he is anti irrational thinking. But anyway, im referring to your assumption i obtained the interpretation from an anti islamic website. Did i, karnal? Shame karnal shame.

Told you

Ive learnt my lesson Wink

no more trying to expand karnals opinions.

The truth is Sam's main focus when discussing Islam is the blind spot (willing or deliberate) of the regressive left to call out the backwards practices of Islam.

Yes, he's spent a lot of time recently discussing Islam, but it's far from his main area of interest.

Back to top

IBI

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #136 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

All you're doing here is going through a tired old list of anti-Islam themes. Child marriage, polygamy, polandary, public flogging, etc, etc, etc. You're clearly not interested in a discussion - you point out others' thoughts as "anecdotal" as if this were a trial.

Of course other people's travel stories are anecdotal.

No one's disagreeing that all these things are illegal in our country, or even immoral, cruel and against the rights of women and girls. No one disagrees that we should keep these rights fully in place.

But to suggest they're being eroded by Islam in Australia is ludicrous. To suggest that Muslims in Australia are campaigning or somehow willing to wind back these rights is equally ignorant. They're not.

Id say there is only one person in this thread who is actively uninterested in having a discussion, and that is you, karnal, who refuses to read things offered and instead just stubbornly reiterates already disproven nonsense. Youre so lacking in thks discussion that we are onto page 9 and you still think we are only talking of australia (although i can appreciate why a pacifist doesnt wish to concern themselves with the world). And even if we were to stick only with australia then i would have to ask you to please provide the evidence yoh are using to generslise that people are not wishing to wind back laws. I personally dont know, but it definitely concerns me that people living in countries that have fundamentally different views on liberalism are entering australia and all im told is not to offend and to be understsnding. I dont know how the women in the households are being treated, do you? You cant even bring yourself to ask if the people you hold up as golden examples have read the koran. You have no idea but you assume. And what also concerns me is that a seemingly intelligent person when asked how islam is compatible completely misses the mark, but is so adament that its fine. All of these things need to be discussed karnal, especially if we are to have open borders which as a liberal person i fundamentally support. But the problem js regressives like you who are not interested in discussion.

As for your anecdotes, they are fine but refrain from trying to use them to contradict actual evidence. You sound like a climate change denier.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 100476

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #137 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:59am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:30am:

I wonder if karnal thinks telling a climate change denier that their opinion goes against mountains of scientific analysis is also being arrogant? We better stop... people may get offended.

You don't have any "scientific analysis". If you don't think Sam Harris is anti-Islam (and pro-Israel), you must have had a serious head injury.

I don't think you're learning, Alevine, I think you're regressing. You have every right to do this - to promote completely unnecessary fear, hate and war. But you don't have any grounds to do so. The invasion of Iraq is a telling case in point.

Back then, of course, we were all against it, the 2007 FD most of all. Now, with all that we know - the lies for going in, the botched occupation, the corrupt government, the arrival of ISIS - FD and others here, including yourself I believe, defend the invasion of Iraq because it got the Muselman.

Now if this isn't a form of regression into dumb, flagwaving tribalism, I don't know what is.

Back to top

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #138 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:00am

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

No, sam harris is not anti islam, he is anti irrational thinking. But anyway, im referring to your assumption i obtained the interpretation from an anti islamic website. Did i, karnal? Shame karnal shame.

Told you

Ive learnt my lesson Wink

no more trying to expand karnals opinions.

The truth is Sam's main focus when discussing Islam is the blind spot (willing or deliberate) of the regressive left to call out the backwards practices of Islam.

Yes, he's spent a lot of time recently discussing Islam, but it's far from his main area of interest.

His freewill book is my favourite.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again Reply #139 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am You must have had a catharsis alevine, because I find myself agreeing with much of your commentary lately. With this exception, open borders are NOT fine.
Back to top	Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism. IP Logged

Gordon

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21626
Gordon
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #140 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:00am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

No, sam harris is not anti islam, he is anti irrational thinking. But anyway, im referring to your assumption i obtained the interpretation from an anti islamic website. Did i, karnal? Shame karnal shame.

Told you

Ive learnt my lesson Wink

no more trying to expand karnals opinions.

The truth is Sam's main focus when discussing Islam is the blind spot (willing or deliberate) of the regressive left to call out the backwards practices of Islam.

Yes, he's spent a lot of time recently discussing Islam, but it's far from his main area of interest.

His freewill book is my favourite.

On my list, have a bit of Oliver Sacks to get thru first, but I've listened to a bit of the podcast.

It's interesting when you apply his notions of freewill to Islam (and regressive cultures).

When Karnal tells us a 16 year old girl from Lakemba marrying her 30 year old cousin is consensual, is it not obvious her freewill is a product of her perceived choices?

Back to top

IBI

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 100476

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #141 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:08am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

All you're doing here is going through a tired old list of anti-Islam themes. Child marriage, polygamy, polandary, public flogging, etc, etc, etc. You're clearly not interested in a discussion - you point out others' thoughts as "anecdotal" as if this were a trial.

Of course other people's travel stories are anecdotal.

No one's disagreeing that all these things are illegal in our country, or even immoral, cruel and against the rights of women and girls. No one disagrees that we should keep these rights fully in place.

But to suggest they're being eroded by Islam in Australia is ludicrous. To suggest that Muslims in Australia are campaigning or somehow willing to wind back these rights is equally ignorant. They're not.

Id say there is only one person in this thread who is actively uninterested in having a discussion, and that is you, karnal, who refuses to read things offered and instead just stubbornly reiterates already disproven nonsense.

Tsk tsk.

Back to top

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #142 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:08am

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:59am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:30am:

I wonder if karnal thinks telling a climate change denier that their opinion goes against mountains of scientific analysis is also being arrogant? We better stop... people may get offended.

You don't have any "scientific analysis". If you don't think Sam Harris is anti-Islam (and pro-Israel), you must have had a serious head injury.

I don't think you're learning, Alevine, I think you're regressing. You have every right to do this - to promote completely unnecessary fear, hate and war. But you don't have any grounds to do so. The invasion of Iraq is a telling case in point.

Back then, of course, we were all against it, the 2007 FD most of all. Now, with all that we know - the lies for going in, the botched occupation, the corrupt government, the arrival of ISIS - FD and others here, including yourself I believe, defend the invasion of Iraq because it got the Muselman.

Now if this isn't a form of regression into dumb, flagwaving tribalism, I don't know what is.

You can of course show how sam harris is anti islam and pro israel? Anyway, im pro israel! Arent you? Are you pro terrorism, karnal? Good heavens!

And my evidence is the real world karnal, where real people are constantly struggling and suffering, being butchered or punished for nonsensical reasons. But you keep telling us its fine, let those brown people die and suffer, it isnt worth spreading fear.

Im always ready to admit my naivity in being against the overthrow of sadam. A murderous arsehole who killed 2 million people and caused suffering tom1/3 of the population. The reason for the invasion was wrong. The outcome was correct. No real liveral person would actively suggest that a ductator must remain in order to prdvent another terrorist group. All of which actually derived from islam... but i digress.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100476	Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again Reply #143 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:09am bogarde73 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am: You must have had a catharsis alevine, because I find myself agreeing with much of your commentary lately. With this exception, open borders are NOT fine. There you are, Alevine. Vindication.
Back to top	IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 100476

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #144 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:11am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:59am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:30am:

I wonder if karnal thinks telling a climate change denier that their opinion goes against mountains of scientific analysis is also being arrogant? We better stop... people may get offended.

You don't have any "scientific analysis". If you don't think Sam Harris is anti-Islam (and pro-Israel), you must have had a serious head injury.

I don't think you're learning, Alevine, I think you're regressing. You have every right to do this - to promote completely unnecessary fear, hate and war. But you don't have any grounds to do so. The invasion of Iraq is a telling case in point.

Back then, of course, we were all against it, the 2007 FD most of all. Now, with all that we know - the lies for going in, the botched occupation, the corrupt government, the arrival of ISIS - FD and others here, including yourself I believe, defend the invasion of Iraq because it got the Muselman.

Now if this isn't a form of regression into dumb, flagwaving tribalism, I don't know what is.

You can of course show how sam harris is anti islam and pro israel?

I've already quoted the podcast you linked here, dear. For some reason, you were reluctant to do so.

Back to top

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #145 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:11am

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:00am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:23am:

Gordon wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:12am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:09am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:52am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

And once again Gandalf, may I stress that indeed your interpretation is fundamentally flawed

I don't think you understand how arrogant this is, Alevine. You're trying to tell someone what their personal views are, based on your own reading of anti-Islam articles and websites. Imagine if I told you what you are "compelled" to believe as FD says, because of the spiritual path you follow.

Whats arrogant, karnal, is to assume im reading anti islam websites. Tsk tsk.

You've linked them. Tsk tsk.

I include your podcast above in this category. How could you not call this anti-Islam?

No, sam harris is not anti islam, he is anti irrational thinking. But anyway, im referring to your assumption i obtained the interpretation from an anti islamic website. Did i, karnal? Shame karnal shame.

Told you

Ive learnt my lesson Wink

no more trying to expand karnals opinions.

The truth is Sam's main focus when discussing Islam is the blind spot (willing or deliberate) of the regressive left to call out the backwards practices of Islam.

Yes, he's spent a lot of time recently discussing Islam, but it's far from his main area of interest.

His freewill book is my favourite.

On my list, have a bit of Oliver Sacks to get thru first, but I've listened to a bit of the podcast.

It's interesting when you apply his notions of freewill to Islam (and regressive cultures).

When Karnal tells us a 16 year old girl from Lakemba marrying her 30 year old cousin is consensual, is it not obvious her freewill is a product of her perceived choices?

But of course. If we are the biproduct of our genes and upbringing then it is only reasonable to concludewhy the brain selects the choice that it has. All the more reason to be concerned about the regression that islam entails.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #146 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:12am

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:11am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:59am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:30am:

I wonder if karnal thinks telling a climate change denier that their opinion goes against mountains of scientific analysis is also being arrogant? We better stop... people may get offended.

You don't have any "scientific analysis". If you don't think Sam Harris is anti-Islam (and pro-Israel), you must have had a serious head injury.

I don't think you're learning, Alevine, I think you're regressing. You have every right to do this - to promote completely unnecessary fear, hate and war. But you don't have any grounds to do so. The invasion of Iraq is a telling case in point.

Back then, of course, we were all against it, the 2007 FD most of all. Now, with all that we know - the lies for going in, the botched occupation, the corrupt government, the arrival of ISIS - FD and others here, including yourself I believe, defend the invasion of Iraq because it got the Muselman.

Now if this isn't a form of regression into dumb, flagwaving tribalism, I don't know what is.

You can of course show how sam harris is anti islam and pro israel?

I've already quoted the podcast you linked here, dear. For some reason, you were reluctant to do so.

You mean the one that explains quite eloquently his position, and the one you could only quote out of context in your typical smartass way?

So now youre anti israel karnal? Shame karnal, shame.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #147 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:14am

Karnal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:09am:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

You must have had a catharsis alevine, because I find myself agreeing with much of your commentary lately.
With this exception, open borders are NOT fine.

There you are, Alevine. Vindication.

I dont keep the company but you my friend are no better.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #148 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:17am

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

You must have had a catharsis alevine, because I find myself agreeing with much of your commentary lately.
With this exception, open borders are NOT fine.

Open borders is something we have to strive for. But yes, not while regressives continue to tell us everything is fine with islam.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 100476

Re: Typical regressive left gets it wrong again
Reply #149 - Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

But you keep telling us its fine, let those brown people die and suffer, it isnt worth spreading fear.

But it is fine. We have nothing to fear. For the millionth time, I live in a Muslim neighbourhood, I know Muslims, I work with them, I get my teeth fixed and hair cut by them - with drills and sharp scissors too.

All of them, without fail, are nice, decent people. And all of the Muslims I've discussed religion and politics with are more liberal, more charitable and more gentle and humble than any of the Muslim haters I've talked with on this board.

I know Jihadists exist, but I've never met one. I was astonished to hear the views of the French terrorist cell recently shown on Four Corners: the ignorance, the cruelty, the hate, anger and mindless dogma.

I'm sure there are a few like this in Australia. I'm not sure how many. No one is. But if you want me to agree that Muslims are wrong and somehow bad (and you do), you're going to have to compete with my own positive experience of Muslims.

Tsk tsking isn't going to do it.

Back to top

IP Logged