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Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia (Read 9765 times)
Black Orchid
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #30 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:06pm
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:25pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Sharia Law belongs in Islamic countries, NOT in the UK or in any other western country.


Outside Islamic jurisdictions, Sharia law is religious form of civil law. It has nothing to do with legal jurisdictions, Islamic or Western. As it is applied in Australia and the UK, Sharia law is a voluntary form of mediation, normally undertaken in family and custody disputes.

In NSW, mediation is required before a matter can proceed to the Family Court. Sharia law usually takes this role. Its rulings can only be enforced through contract law and are not legally binding.

It would actually be unconstitutional to ban this form of dispute resolution. Any laws passed to do this would be challenged and overruled. There are other religious civil processes, including the Jewish court in Melbourne, the Beth Din. Therefore, banning Sharia law alone would be discriminatory, and again, challenged.

Sharia civil and family law is perfectly legal. More, it's constitutional. If there's a legal way to ban religious forms of dispute resolution, I'd love to hear it.

Like Halal food, Sharia law can't possibly be banned in a functioning constitutional democracy.

A royal commission would be completely pointless. Save us the money when you're buying Pauline off, Libs.


Yet many Sharia Courts/Councils in the UK are over-stepping the line.  Which is an obvious eventuality when incompatible systems are allowed to function alongside the law.

Quote:
The Government is to launch an investigation into whether sharia courts operating in the UK discriminate against women – legitimising forced marriages and issuing unfair divorce settlements.

The Home Office said it would examine claims that sharia courts – or councils - may be working in a “discriminatory and unacceptable way”, seeking to legitimise forced marriage and issuing divorces that are unfair to women, contrary to the teachings of Islam. However, it will also seek out examples of best practice among sharia councils.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sharia-courts-in-uk-face-governmen...
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #31 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:07pm
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 12:31am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:08pm:
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:01pm:
Hey baron,

I've read  Aayan Hirsi Ali and she's terrific. If the others are ahead of her in your view, that's saying something. I shall go to YouTube!


Here is an interview with Wafa Sultan, the other videos have her taking on the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam are also worth watching.




A strong, impressive woman. Thanks, baron.


The videos of her taking on the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam are very impressive, a remarkable woman who deserves more recognition for her work in human and womens rights.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #32 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:08pm
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:20pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:06pm:
If I voluntarily agree to become a Member of a Club, I am subject to the provisions of the Constitution of that Club, and I can be dealt with by the Club if I breach any provision of that Constitution.  Yeas?

(That's Step One in the development/explanation of my position, given Nicole Page 2016 found it too hard to explain her position.)



25 responses to this topic and no one has engaged you. This is because:

1.  You're as dumb as a box of rocks
2. You're a nit-picking, haggling little pedant; and
3. As a result of points 1 and 2, no one actually cares about your opinion. 

Warm regards,
Nicole


No-one?
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #33 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:13pm
 
Quote:
If I voluntarily agree to become a Member of a Club, I am subject to the provisions of the Constitution of that Club, and I can be dealt with by the Club if I breach any provision of that Constitution.  Yeas?


No disagreement, so we'll move on.

If the Constitution of my Club, in some way is in breach of the Law, then the Law prevails over it.

Yeas?

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lee
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #34 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:23pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:13pm:
If the Constitution of my Club, in some way is in breach of the Law, then the Law prevails over it.



Unless it has an exemption.
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #35 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:26pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:23pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:13pm:
If the Constitution of my Club, in some way is in breach of the Law, then the Law prevails over it.



Unless it has an exemption.


It is impossible to write/grant yourself an exemption from the Law.
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #36 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:35pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:26pm:
It is impossible to write/grant yourself an exemption from the Law.


But legislators can. Which makes some more equal than others.
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #37 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:42pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:35pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:26pm:
It is impossible to write/grant yourself an exemption from the Law.


But legislators can. Which makes some more equal than others.


That's a tad trite.  Legislators can only make a Law if it passes through Parliament.   
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #38 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:53pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:07pm:
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 12:31am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:08pm:
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jul 12th, 2016 at 10:01pm:
Hey baron,

I've read  Aayan Hirsi Ali and she's terrific. If the others are ahead of her in your view, that's saying something. I shall go to YouTube!


Here is an interview with Wafa Sultan, the other videos have her taking on the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam are also worth watching.




A strong, impressive woman. Thanks, baron.


The videos of her taking on the bearded nutjobs who preach Islam are very impressive, a remarkable woman who deserves more recognition for her work in human and womens rights.


She's a proper feminist. Unlike the bloated, university educated feminazis we have in the west, who have nothing to cry over. Shame on them for not supporting their Islamic sisters like Wafa Sultan.
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #39 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:05pm
 
Quote:
She's a proper feminist.


How?  Just because she is female and rejects extremist Islamic views?

Seems to me that she is just like Christians who disclaim the OT and say that the NT negates the OT. Fine by me, but hardly a big deal.
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lee
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #40 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:09pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:42pm:
That's a tad trite.  Legislators can only make a Law if it passes through Parliament.   



You mean like Discrimination Laws and them not applying to private clubs?

'Private clubs enjoy an automatic exemption from anti-discrimination laws and are free to restrict membership on attributes including gender.'

http://www.smh.com.au/national/shed-time-at-menx2019s-club-20090805-ea3k.html#ix...
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #41 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:14pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:42pm:
That's a tad trite.  Legislators can only make a Law if it passes through Parliament.   



You mean like Discrimination Laws and them not applying to private clubs?

'Private clubs enjoy an automatic exemption from anti-discrimination laws and are free to restrict membership on attributes including gender.'

http://www.smh.com.au/national/shed-time-at-menx2019s-club-20090805-ea3k.html#ix...


That is an exemption given them by Law.  The Clubs did not write/grant it themselves.
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #42 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:41pm
 
The4thEstate wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:51pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:25pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Sharia Law belongs in Islamic countries, NOT in the UK or in any other western country.


Outside Islamic jurisdictions, Sharia law is religious form of civil law. It has nothing to do with legal jurisdictions, Islamic or Western. As it is applied in Australia and the UK, Sharia law is a voluntary form of mediation, normally undertaken in family and custody disputes.

In NSW, mediation is required before a matter can proceed to the Family Court. Sharia law usually takes this role. Its rulings can only be enforced through contract law and are not legally binding.

It would actually be unconstitutional to ban this form of dispute resolution. Any laws passed to do this would be challenged and overruled. There are other religious civil processes, including the Jewish court in Melbourne, the Beth Din. Therefore, banning Sharia law alone would be discriminatory, and again, challenged.

Sharia civil and family law is perfectly legal. More, it's constitutional. If there's a legal way to ban religious forms of dispute resolution, I'd love to hear it.

Like Halal food, Sharia law can't possibly be banned in a functioning constitutional democracy.

A royal commission would be completely pointless. Save us the money when you're buying Pauline off, Libs.

Why couldn't Sharia law be banned, especially in the UK, where there are 85 courts set up to practice it.

No nation is required to tolerate a parallel system of justice.

How would it be discriminatory to ban Sharia law and, for that matter, any other that's outside the mainstream? Any nation has the power to flatly declare that its own justice system is the one and only, and all others are null and void.


Constitutions don't usually reference a "mainstream", 4th. Constitutions outline a countries legislative and legal systems, and the rights citizens have thereof. Mainstreams and minorities don't come into it.

How can a country tell its citizens how to resolve civil disputes? This is up to individuals.
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lee
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #43 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:50pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
That is an exemption given them by Law.  The Clubs did not write/grant it themselves.



lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:23pm:
Unless it has an exemption.


lee wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:35pm:
But legislators can. Which makes some more equal than others.



Exactly.  Wink
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Incoming UK PM equivocal on Sharia
Reply #44 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 5:51pm
 
Black Orchid wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:06pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:25pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Jul 13th, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Sharia Law belongs in Islamic countries, NOT in the UK or in any other western country.


Outside Islamic jurisdictions, Sharia law is religious form of civil law. It has nothing to do with legal jurisdictions, Islamic or Western. As it is applied in Australia and the UK, Sharia law is a voluntary form of mediation, normally undertaken in family and custody disputes.

In NSW, mediation is required before a matter can proceed to the Family Court. Sharia law usually takes this role. Its rulings can only be enforced through contract law and are not legally binding.

It would actually be unconstitutional to ban this form of dispute resolution. Any laws passed to do this would be challenged and overruled. There are other religious civil processes, including the Jewish court in Melbourne, the Beth Din. Therefore, banning Sharia law alone would be discriminatory, and again, challenged.

Sharia civil and family law is perfectly legal. More, it's constitutional. If there's a legal way to ban religious forms of dispute resolution, I'd love to hear it.

Like Halal food, Sharia law can't possibly be banned in a functioning constitutional democracy.

A royal commission would be completely pointless. Save us the money when you're buying Pauline off, Libs.


Yet many Sharia Courts/Councils in the UK are over-stepping the line.  Which is an obvious eventuality when incompatible systems are allowed to function alongside the law.

Quote:
The Government is to launch an investigation into whether sharia courts operating in the UK discriminate against women – legitimising forced marriages and issuing unfair divorce settlements.

The Home Office said it would examine claims that sharia courts – or councils - may be working in a “discriminatory and unacceptable way”, seeking to legitimise forced marriage and issuing divorces that are unfair to women, contrary to the teachings of Islam. However, it will also seek out examples of best practice among sharia councils.



Ah yes, but religions discriminate against people all the time. In Australia, to do this legally, all they have to do is obtain an exemption through EEO or the Human Rights Commission.

I'm allowed to be discriminated against by the Salvos. They're perfectly able to knock me back for employment because I'm not a Christian. I'm allowed to be knocked back for jobs in domestic violence shelters, Aboriginal positions, jobs as Greek Orthodox priests, rabbis, vicars, etc, etc, etc.

Religions discriminate all the time. In Jewish courts, parties are required to cover their heads. Believe it or not, the Old Testament is pretty discriminatory too.

Whether this is "right" or not is not the issue. If the parties seek such justice with informed consent, this covers discrimination legislation.
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