Australian Politics Forum - Brexit - the demographic issue

Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20734 Gender:	Re: Brexit - the demographic issue Reply #240 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:30am A unified Europe is the result of plans. It is , in fact, a classic utopian project, a monument to the vanity of intellectuals, a program whose inevitable destiny is failure: only the scale of the final damage in in doubt Margaret Thatcher
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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #241 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:35am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:29am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:23am:

Where are you getting this from? There has been nothing to suggest that the UK will lose its seat. Last year there was a vote for Scottish independence and at no point was this considered an issue.

It's like you have thought up a possible issue and are now arguing for it like it is a major talking point in political circles. This isn't even on the radar.

The UK parliament has already been researching the possible fallout from Scottish independence and exit from the EU in terms of the UK's position as a P5 member.

Of course it won't happen soon but, as England becomes increasingly irrelevant, the prestige of the UN Security Council will be diminished by England's presence as a P5 member.

This isn't the late 18 century. Why the hell would France and the USA want the UK out?

If Russia could keep its seat after the fall of the Soviet Union, when it couldn't even pay its army, had nuclear weapons rotting away, and even had subs that couldn't pay their power bill in port Roll Eyes

, why the hell do you think the UK loosing Scotland is going to do jack all to the UK's position? It would have next to no impact on the strength of England.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #242 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:38am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:27am:

It's more amazing that you think that Russia, China, France, and the USA are already embarrassed by the UK and looking to get rid of them. As if somehow the UK and the USA never see eye to eye and the USA is always in agreement with China and Russia Roll Eyes

. I'm sure France and the USA can't wait to turn on their NATO partner and get Brazil in there...

China has already indicated it wants reform of the security council and the elevation of developing nations onto the council. Any reform of this magnitude is going to put into serious question England's presence in the event of the dissolution of the UK.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #243 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:41am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:35am:

This isn't the late 18 century. Why the hell would France and the USA want the UK out?

If Russia could keep its seat after the fall of the Soviet Union, when it couldn't even pay its army, had nuclear weapons rotting away, and even had subs that couldn't pay their power bill in port Roll Eyes

, why the hell do you think the UK loosing Scotland is going to do jack all to the UK's position? It would have next to no impact on the strength of England.

The security council is about world security not the vanity of a tiny country representing maybe 0.7% of the world's population.

With the US, business is business, so no nostalgia for the Eisenhower years there.

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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #244 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:42am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:38am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:27am:

It's more amazing that you think that Russia, China, France, and the USA are already embarrassed by the UK and looking to get rid of them. As if somehow the UK and the USA never see eye to eye and the USA is always in agreement with China and Russia Roll Eyes

. I'm sure France and the USA can't wait to turn on their NATO partner and get Brazil in there...

China has already indicated it wants reform of the security council and the elevation of developing nations onto the council. Any reform of this magnitude is going to put into serious question England's presence in the event of the dissolution of the UK.

France and the USA are not going to let China remove the UK and then put a nation friendly to China in its place. There is absolutely no substance to this scenario.

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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #245 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:35am:

This isn't the late 18 century. Why the hell would France and the USA want the UK out?

If Russia could keep its seat after the fall of the Soviet Union, when it couldn't even pay its army, had nuclear weapons rotting away, and even had subs that couldn't pay their power bill in port Roll Eyes

, why the hell do you think the UK loosing Scotland is going to do jack all to the UK's position? It would have next to no impact on the strength of England.

The security council is about world security not the vanity of a tiny country representing maybe 0.7% of the world's population.

With the US, business is business, so no nostalgia for the Eisenhower years there.

The USA will remove their closest ally and put someone in that makes China happy? That's good business for the US is it?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #246 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:42am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:38am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:27am:

It's more amazing that you think that Russia, China, France, and the USA are already embarrassed by the UK and looking to get rid of them. As if somehow the UK and the USA never see eye to eye and the USA is always in agreement with China and Russia Roll Eyes

. I'm sure France and the USA can't wait to turn on their NATO partner and get Brazil in there...

China has already indicated it wants reform of the security council and the elevation of developing nations onto the council. Any reform of this magnitude is going to put into serious question England's presence in the event of the dissolution of the UK.

France and the USA are not going to let China remove the UK and then put a nation friendly to China in its place. There is absolutely no substance to this scenario.

How about India or Brazil? Major nations not hostile to the US or France.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Brexit - the demographic issue Reply #247 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am: The USA will remove their closest ally and put someone in that makes China happy? That's good business for the US is it? Many nations claim to be the US 'closest ally'... Like Canada and Australia, France, Israel... Its rhetoric.
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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #248 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:42am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:38am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:27am:

It's more amazing that you think that Russia, China, France, and the USA are already embarrassed by the UK and looking to get rid of them. As if somehow the UK and the USA never see eye to eye and the USA is always in agreement with China and Russia Roll Eyes

. I'm sure France and the USA can't wait to turn on their NATO partner and get Brazil in there...

China has already indicated it wants reform of the security council and the elevation of developing nations onto the council. Any reform of this magnitude is going to put into serious question England's presence in the event of the dissolution of the UK.

France and the USA are not going to let China remove the UK and then put a nation friendly to China in its place. There is absolutely no substance to this scenario.

How about India or Brazil? Major nations not hostile to the US or France.

Yeah, because Brazil is in a much better position than the UK Roll Eyes

5 seats, 3 are NATO. The NATO 3 are not going to screw each other over to make China happy.

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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #249 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:50am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am:

The USA will remove their closest ally and put someone in that makes China happy? That's good business for the US is it?

Many nations claim to be the US 'closest ally'... Like Canada and Australia, France, Israel... Its rhetoric.

Except that the USA and the UK have held each other's dick since WW2. That includes reach arounds on the security council. Why the hell is the USA going throw that away?

You are looking for an issue where there is none and are coming up with some pretty bloody weird arguments to support it.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #250 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:51am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Yeah, because Brazil is in a much better position than the UK Roll Eyes

5 seats, 3 are NATO. The NATO 3 are not going to screw each other over to make China happy.

India is a powerful nation and arguably hostile to China... Yet the Chinese (ever the pragmatists) would not be likely to object to India's elevation to the security council.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #251 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:52am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:50am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am:

The USA will remove their closest ally and put someone in that makes China happy? That's good business for the US is it?

Many nations claim to be the US 'closest ally'... Like Canada and Australia, France, Israel... Its rhetoric.

Except that the USA and the UK have held each other's dick since WW2. That includes reach arounds on the security council. Why the hell is the USA going throw that away?

You are looking for an issue where there is none and are coming up with some pretty bloody weird arguments to support it.

Really? And yet you're the one talking about dick holding and reach arounds...

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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #252 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:57am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:51am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Yeah, because Brazil is in a much better position than the UK Roll Eyes

5 seats, 3 are NATO. The NATO 3 are not going to screw each other over to make China happy.

India is a powerful nation and arguably hostile to China... Yet the Chinese (ever the pragmatists) would not be likely to object to India's elevation to the security council.

I can see the US argument for this now,

"Let's remove someone who always votes with us and who with have had an unbelievably strong relationship with, and let's replace them with an unstable element that the Chinese are happy with"

I wonder if they would demote or just shoot the idiot that suggest this? They would have to at least give them a psychological test...

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #253 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 1:00am

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:57am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:51am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Yeah, because Brazil is in a much better position than the UK Roll Eyes

5 seats, 3 are NATO. The NATO 3 are not going to screw each other over to make China happy.

India is a powerful nation and arguably hostile to China... Yet the Chinese (ever the pragmatists) would not be likely to object to India's elevation to the security council.

I can see the US argument for this now,

"Let's remove someone who always votes with us and who with have had an unbelievably strong relationship with, and let's replace them with an unstable element that the Chinese are happy with"

I wonder if they would demote or just shoot the idiot that suggest this? They would have to at least give them a psychological test...

You seem to think that the security council is a nostalgia club for WW2 veterans...

The security council is about realpolitik... Nothing personal, just business.

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Quantum

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Re: Brexit - the demographic issue
Reply #254 - Jun 27^th, 2016 at 1:02am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:52am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:50am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:47am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 12:44am:

The USA will remove their closest ally and put someone in that makes China happy? That's good business for the US is it?

Many nations claim to be the US 'closest ally'... Like Canada and Australia, France, Israel... Its rhetoric.

Except that the USA and the UK have held each other's dick since WW2. That includes reach arounds on the security council. Why the hell is the USA going throw that away?

You are looking for an issue where there is none and are coming up with some pretty bloody weird arguments to support it.

Really? And yet you're the one talking about dick holding and reach arounds...

Because your position is a joke.

*UK leaving the EU may cause Scotland to break away from the UK
*Scotland breaking away could make England irrelevant.
*An irrelevant England would be an embarrassment on the security council.
*Out of embarrassment the USA would push to replace the UK (England) on the security council with someone that China wants.

There is a reason why the above argument is limited to this forum. No one in the enitre smacking world except you is thinking this might happen.

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