Australian Politics Forum - Muslims always tell us what they think

Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #420 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 8:43pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 8:38pm:

So you think most Muslims are only Muslims because they don't know what is in the Koran?

I think many Muslims are Muslims because their parents were Muslims, FD. Just as many Christians are Christians because their parents were Christian.

Today, the overwhelming majority of Australians identify on their Census form as "Christian" yet only about 25% or less identify that they regularly attend Church.

Seems to be quite a discrepancy there, don't you think? Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50637 At my desk.	Re: Muslims always tell us what they think Reply #421 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:00pm Where Brian? I bet even you have a good understanding of what is in the Bible, despite not going to church regularly. Do you know any Muslims who reject the Koran?
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Aussie

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #422 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 8:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 8:34pm:

Of course you don't accept it Aussie. You are not a Christian or a Muslim. You appear to even struggle telling the difference. The point is though that contrary to Brian's apologetics, Muslims do accept the Koran.

And most Christians the whole bible, Old and New Testaments, FD. Roll Eyes

Tell me freediver, which parts of the Bible do Jews accept? Do they accept any part of the Koran?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #423 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:12pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:00pm:

Where Brian? I bet even you have a good understanding of what is in the Bible, despite not going to church regularly.

Oh, I think I have a very good understanding of the Bible but I don't identify as "Christian" on the Census. Do you? Do you attend church, FD?

Do you even answer questions?

Quote:

Do you know any Muslims who reject the Koran?

Do you know any Christians who reject the Bible? Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #424 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:19pm

Quote:

Tell me freediver, which parts of the Bible do Jews accept?

As far as I know, the old testament, or whatever version of it they have. Do you have a point this time Aussie?

Quote:

Do you know any Christians who reject the Bible?

No Brian, but like I said Christianity is a rejection of some of the basic precepts of the old testament. Even you know this, despite your efforts to characterise Christianity by the old testament.

Now, where are those Koran rejecting Muslims you were talking about?

What percentage of Muslims do you think are only Muslims because they don't know what is in the Koran? Or did you not think through your "only because their parents were Muslims" BS?

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Neferti

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #425 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:26pm

The Jews have their own "Bible".

Quote:

Torah

The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.

Written Torah

To Jews, there is no "Old Testament." The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture. The so-called Old Testament is known to us as Written Torah or the Tanakh.

This is a list of the books of Written Torah, in the order in which they appear in Jewish translations, with the Hebrew name of the book, a translation of the Hebrew name (where it is not the same as the English name), and English names of the books (where it is not the same as the Hebrew name). The Hebrew names of the first five books are derived from the first few words of the book. The text of each book is more or less the same in Jewish translations as what you see in Christian bibles, although there are some occasional, slight differences in the numbering of verses and there are some significant differences in the translations.

Read all about it here:

http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm

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Aussie

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #426 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:30pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Quote:

Tell me freediver, which parts of the Bible do Jews accept?

As far as I know, the old testament, or whatever version of it they have. Do you have a point this time Aussie?

Quote:

Do you know any Christians who reject the Bible?

No Brian, but like I said Christianity is a rejection of some of the basic precepts of the old testament. Even you know this, despite your efforts to characterise Christianity by the old testament.

Now, where are those Koran rejecting Muslims you were talking about?

What percentage of Muslims do you think are only Muslims because they don't know what is in the Koran? Or did you not think through your "only because their parents were Muslims" BS?

How can I make a point if you obfuscate with that?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50637 At my desk.	Re: Muslims always tell us what they think Reply #427 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:33pm Good point Aussie. You are incapable of making a point unless I say whatever it is you wanted me to say.
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Aussie

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #428 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:35pm

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Good point Aussie. You are incapable of making a point unless I say whatever it is you wanted me to say.

No. I want you to come clean about this:

Quote:

As far as I know, the old testament, or whatever version of it they have.

Tell me what version they have of it so that I can debate you on common/agreed ground.

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Neferti

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #429 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:44pm

Neferti wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:26pm:

The Jews have their own "Bible".

Quote:

Torah

The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.

Written Torah

To Jews, there is no "Old Testament." The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture. The so-called Old Testament is known to us as Written Torah or the Tanakh.

This is a list of the books of Written Torah, in the order in which they appear in Jewish translations, with the Hebrew name of the book, a translation of the Hebrew name (where it is not the same as the English name), and English names of the books (where it is not the same as the Hebrew name). The Hebrew names of the first five books are derived from the first few words of the book. The text of each book is more or less the same in Jewish translations as what you see in Christian bibles, although there are some occasional, slight differences in the numbering of verses and there are some significant differences in the translations.

Read all about it here:

http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm

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freediver

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #430 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:46pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Good point Aussie. You are incapable of making a point unless I say whatever it is you wanted me to say.

No. I want you to come clean about this:

Quote:

As far as I know, the old testament, or whatever version of it they have.

Tell me what version they have of it so that I can debate you on common/agreed ground.

It's called the Torah Aussie. I now wait with anticipation for you to get to the point.

Let me help you out - Muslims don't really believe the Koran because of something to do with the Jews?

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Rubber Johnny

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #431 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:53pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:33pm:

Good point Aussie. You are incapable of making a point unless I say whatever it is you wanted me to say.

No. I want you to come clean about this:

Quote:

As far as I know, the old testament, or whatever version of it they have.

Tell me what version they have of it so that I can debate you on common/agreed ground.

Arguing from a point of ignorance seems to be a common theme for you.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39240 Gender:	Re: Muslims always tell us what they think Reply #432 - Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 10:44pm Quote: It's called the Torah Aussie. This is progress Grasshopper. Are there parts of the Bible embraced therein?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #433 - Jul 4^th, 2016 at 12:17am

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 9:19pm:

Quote:

Do you know any Christians who reject the Bible?

No Brian, but like I said Christianity is a rejection of some of the basic precepts of the old testament. Even you know this, despite your efforts to characterise Christianity by the old testament.

I haven't "characterised" Christianity by anything, FD. I have asked why the Old Testament is included in The Bible if it is rejected as some here like Moses have claimed. I have heard and read many justifications for the most heinous of crimes which Christians have taken from the Old Testament so I often wonder if Moses, et al, are correct. Indeed, their attempts to disown the Old Testament always surprise me 'cause in my bible classes, it was always embraced as an important part of The Bible by the scholars who taught it.

Quote:

Now, where are those Koran rejecting Muslims you were talking about?

What percentage of Muslims do you think are only Muslims because they don't know what is in the Koran? Or did you not think through your "only because their parents were Muslims" BS?

Is it bullshit, FD? I have known a few Muslims who were Muslim only in name (in fact as an "ethnicity" in the old Yugoslavia). I have know a few Muslims who weren't aware of what the Q'ran contained, being unable to read Arabic and reliant on what their Imans told them. You, OTOH appear to believe that every Muslim is 100% observant and correct in their religion. I wonder why? Perhaps because it fits your bigotry? Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #434 - Jul 4^th, 2016 at 12:54pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2016 at 10:44pm:

Quote:

It's called the Torah Aussie.

This is progress Grasshopper. Are there parts of the Bible embraced therein?

We have just been over this Aussie. Have you forgotten already? Scroll up.

Quote:

Is it bullshit, FD? I have known a few Muslims who were Muslim only in name (in fact as an "ethnicity" in the old Yugoslavia). I have know a few Muslims who weren't aware of what the Q'ran contained, being unable to read Arabic and reliant on what their Imans told them.

How representative do you think they are Brian? What percentage of Muslims would you guess only identify as Muslim either for non-religious reasons or because they don't know what is in the Koran?

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