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Who is the real historical jesus ? (Read 41770 times)
stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #45 - Jul 2nd, 2016 at 10:39am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 2nd, 2016 at 3:11am:
stryder wrote on Jun 20th, 2016 at 12:02am:
Jesus Christ is probably the best known person who ever lived and maybe there is some truth in it, his name is certainly widely known to a great segment of humanity, but I find it hard to believe he was some supernatural figure, whether the son of god or one of the three in the holy trinity, whatever.

But many people would expect me to believe in this divinely supernatural figure who died a bloody death through crucification to some how save humanity from itself and usher it in a new relationship with god,

Given how my mind works, I simply do not buy it, now I believe that jesus Christ may have existed but was just a human being like you and me, and some how he had a story behind him which has been immensely exaggerated over the centuries from a human being to this supernatural deity who is worshiped as such.


The most erroneous part of that post was to say "the best known person who ever lived". There is no truth in saying that Jesus ever lived and died as the person told in the Bible, simply because there is no evidence that can show that Jesus ever lived. Santa Claus is also a well-known person, too. Yet, he is based on lies and his existent is false.

If you could time travel back 2000 years, you would not find some teenager/young adult in Judea who could perform miracles at will, or who held audiences captive with his speeches/teachings. Most of the bible is made up of stories about mythology. The story of Jesus being among the mythology.

I can't entertain that someone would live to perform miraculous acts of God, and not be used by the Roman Empire to help alleviate suffering/make Rome even stronger. It's the whole "ho-hum" attitude of people after Jesus' death that leaves me to believe that, had Jesus been real, he did not have a major impact on his community. It feels as if the story about Jesus was that he did not want to prove his worth to people, and died as a fraud, and one massive disappointment.

I would not consider Jesus to have ever existed beyond the fables told in the Bible.


You say there is no such truth that jesus ever lived, it seems hard to believe that given the legacy of christianity with its scale in impact and effects whether positive or negative which spread throughtout the world and through time was a story made up in some obscure persons imagination is way too hard to rationally fathom.

My second point is that even if you believe or come to accept that jesus was an actual person who existed, doesnt mean you have to buy into the whole supernatural divinal elements that has surrounded this central figure of christianity.

the purpose of this thread is while accepting that jesus may have existed, im trying to dig through the supernaturality around him and get to something close to the actual human being himself whose story which has a very significant impact in world history.
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #46 - Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm
 
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed, just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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issuevoter
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #47 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 10:18am
 
No one should ever allow their view be defined by what it is not.
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Yadda
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #48 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #49 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:07pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.






Rising from the dead is still supernatural. Wi-fi has a perfectly scientific explanation.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Yadda
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #50 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:46pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.






Rising from the dead is still supernatural.

Wi-fi has a perfectly scientific explanation.





Oh, so you can see, that there is a difference, between mankind's comprehension of the existence and workings of one, and of the other ?

So, those things which you 'understand',    ....you say you understand those, because those things, can be explained scientifically ?

But that which you do not understand is 'supernatural', and is 'hocus pocus'.

I see.



I do not understand very much.

It is not within me, within my mental capacity, to understand many things.

But when i see something which i do not understand, i ask questions.

I even ask questions about, what others call, 'faerie tales'.

Coz i'm a very gullible person.

Smiley




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #51 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:59pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:46pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.






Rising from the dead is still supernatural.

Wi-fi has a perfectly scientific explanation.





Oh, so you can see, that there is a difference, between mankind's comprehension of the existence and workings of one, and of the other ?

So, those things which you 'understand',    ....you say you understand those, because those things, can be explained scientifically ?

But that which you do not understand is 'supernatural', and is 'hocus pocus'.

I see.



I do not understand very much.

It is not within me, within my mental capacity, to understand many things.

But when i see something which i do not understand, i ask questions.

I even ask questions about, what others call, 'faerie tales'.

Coz i'm a very gullible person.

Smiley








Well the first problem is actually working out whether said events actually occurred
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Yadda
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #52 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:04pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:59pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:46pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.






Rising from the dead is still supernatural.

Wi-fi has a perfectly scientific explanation.





Oh, so you can see, that there is a difference, between mankind's comprehension of the existence and workings of one, and of the other ?

So, those things which you 'understand',    ....you say you understand those, because those things, can be explained scientifically ?

But that which you do not understand is 'supernatural', and is 'hocus pocus'.

I see.



I do not understand very much.

It is not within me, within my mental capacity, to understand many things.

But when i see something which i do not understand, i ask questions.

I even ask questions about, what others call, 'faerie tales'.

Coz i'm a very gullible person.

Smiley








Well the first problem is actually working out whether said events actually occurred





There is not one scintilla of proof that it/they did.

[I told you that i was gullible.]


Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #53 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:06pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:04pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:59pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 3:46pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 11:15am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 4th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
There are a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept Jesus existed,

just not the supernatual acts ascribed to him





QUESTION;
Why not ? !!!!!!!!


e.g.
I've got and use, a wifi device.

The ability of my wifi device would have been 'supernatual' 2000 years ago too.




The truth is that, you atheists live in such a small 'universe' and on such a small 'world'.     !!!

For you, and yours, nothing exists [or can exist], unless you can sense it with some part of you physical body.

Dum!

And evidence of an arrogant and immensely vain mind/personality.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.




Dictionary;
pride = = a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions.






Rising from the dead is still supernatural.

Wi-fi has a perfectly scientific explanation.





Oh, so you can see, that there is a difference, between mankind's comprehension of the existence and workings of one, and of the other ?

So, those things which you 'understand',    ....you say you understand those, because those things, can be explained scientifically ?

But that which you do not understand is 'supernatural', and is 'hocus pocus'.

I see.



I do not understand very much.

It is not within me, within my mental capacity, to understand many things.

But when i see something which i do not understand, i ask questions.

I even ask questions about, what others call, 'faerie tales'.

Coz i'm a very gullible person.

Smiley








Well the first problem is actually working out whether said events actually occurred





There is not one scintilla of proof that it/they did.

[I told you that i was gullible.]





Clearly, so until that point whats the point of debating them. I know wi-fi is real, resurrection not so sure
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Yadda
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #54 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:36pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:06pm:

Clearly, so until that point whats the point of debating them. I know wi-fi is real, resurrection not so sure




So you know that wifi is real.

Good on ya.


What about black, and white ?

What about up, and down ?

What about good, and evil ?

What about sanity, and insanity ?



Can't quite 'put your finger on them' ?

Have no particular interest, in discerning between them ?

You have more important things to do ?



Good.

Get on with your more important things then.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #55 - Jul 6th, 2016 at 10:24pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:36pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 6th, 2016 at 4:06pm:

Clearly, so until that point whats the point of debating them. I know wi-fi is real, resurrection not so sure




So you know that wifi is real.

Good on ya.


What about black, and white ?

What about up, and down ?

What about good, and evil ?

What about sanity, and insanity ?



Can't quite 'put your finger on them' ?

Have no particular interest, in discerning between them ?

You have more important things to do ?



Good.

Get on with your more important things then.







Yep like being moral
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #56 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:11pm
 
One of the many details ive come across is with many Christians they don't highlight much of the details concerning Jesus' family and his dealings with them, most will know the identity of mary and joseph his legal father, but how many do know that jesus had four brothers, and they named, james, joses, judas and simon and at least two sisters,
If you read the gospels in reference to the situations between jesus and his family, has revealed some consistent hostility between them.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #57 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:35pm
 
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:11pm:
One of the many details ive come across is with many Christians they don't highlight much of the details concerning Jesus' family and his dealings with them, most will know the identity of mary and joseph his legal father, but how many do know that jesus had four brothers, and they named, james, joses, judas and simon and at least two sisters.

If you read the gospels in reference to the situations between jesus and his family, has revealed some consistent hostility between them.


Hostility???

Where???
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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stryder
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #58 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:42pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:35pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:11pm:
One of the many details ive come across is with many Christians they don't highlight much of the details concerning Jesus' family and his dealings with them, most will know the identity of mary and joseph his legal father, but how many do know that jesus had four brothers, and they named, james, joses, judas and simon and at least two sisters.

If you read the gospels in reference to the situations between jesus and his family, has revealed some consistent hostility between them.


Hostility???

Where???


First example

Luke 2;41 -52

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #59 - Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:45pm
 
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:42pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:35pm:
stryder wrote on Jul 7th, 2016 at 10:11pm:
One of the many details ive come across is with many Christians they don't highlight much of the details concerning Jesus' family and his dealings with them, most will know the identity of mary and joseph his legal father, but how many do know that jesus had four brothers, and they named, james, joses, judas and simon and at least two sisters.

If you read the gospels in reference to the situations between jesus and his family, has revealed some consistent hostility between them.


Hostility???

Where???


First example

Luke 2;41 -52

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.


Grin

Ok so in your mind, you interpret that example as an act of hostility.

It's not.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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