Australian Politics Forum - Who is the real historical jesus ?

Lisa Jones

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #30 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 1:53pm

Pho Huc wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

Actually, many of the people and events recorded in the new testament corrolated with roman government records of the period. Unfortunatly Jesus was not one of these people. I always assumed he was a composite, a messiah built by committe. Id love to be wrong, but such is the lot of the agnostic.

Pure unadulterated bovine faecal matter!

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Raven

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #31 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 4:38pm

Pho Huc wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

Actually, many of the people and events recorded in the new testament corrolated with roman government records of the period. Unfortunatly Jesus was not one of these people. I always assumed he was a composite, a messiah built by committe. Id love to be wrong, but such is the lot of the agnostic.

Of course he was a composite. The legend of the Nazarene has evolved over centuries, the true historical figure has been lost to the ages

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Yadda

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #32 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 5:49pm

Raven wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 4:38pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

.....Jesus......I always assumed he was a composite, a messiah built by committe.

Id love to be wrong, but such is the lot of the agnostic.

Of course he was a composite.

The legend of the Nazarene has evolved over centuries, the true historical figure has been lost to the ages

So certain are you.

Psalms 2:1
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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stryder

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #33 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

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« Last Edit: Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm by stryder »

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #34 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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stryder

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #35 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:57pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

im only using the nazi version of what they described blond haired people, ARYANS,

maybe for you i should stick with the technical term, NORDIC,

But i will call them as I like.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #36 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:01pm

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

im only using the nazi version of what they described blond haired people, ARYANS,

maybe for you i should stick with the technical term, NORDIC,

No, just be factual.

Aryans were never blonde haired and blue eyed.

They were Indo Iranian.

They were dark.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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stryder

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #37 - Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:06pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:01pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

im only using the nazi version of what they described blond haired people, ARYANS,

maybe for you i should stick with the technical term, NORDIC,

No, just be factual.

Aryans were never blonde haired and blue eyed.

They were Indo Iranian.

They were dark.

That was until hitler and himmler came along and changed and construed that meaning, the nazi swasitika was a hindu peace symbol until the nazis came along and used it to signify white racial purity.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #38 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 9:02am

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 8:01pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

im only using the nazi version of what they described blond haired people, ARYANS,

maybe for you i should stick with the technical term, NORDIC,

No, just be factual.

Aryans were never blonde haired and blue eyed.

They were Indo Iranian.

They were dark.

That was until hitler and himmler came along and changed and construed that meaning, the nazi swasitika was a hindu peace symbol until the nazis came along and used it to signify white racial purity.

Why bother googling stuff at me I already know..esp after what I've posted in here?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #39 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 9:04am

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:47pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 4:00pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

stryder wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

I think that over time jesus appearance was washed over as a tall, handsome, blond haired with blue eyes figure splashed over cathedral decorations in churches and illustrated bibles, when most likely the people of Judea where mostly dark skinned with a Mediterranean appearances in that time, which most likely was the real appearance of jesus, where he was no Aryan model.

Oh dear...where do I start with this Roll Eyes

Spider Spunk, with all due respect, your posts in this topic clearly indicate that don't know what you're on about.

I beg to differ, the historical aspect of jesus outside of the canonised gospel versions have always appealed and fascinated me as someone who grew up in the christian faith, given the impact and the significance of the story of jesus throughout history and i have researched and read over it for over 25 years, and i dont dismiss the fact from it all, that human beings have always the capacity from then to now, to lie or exaggerate stories or myths to meet some end. and the story of jesus is no exception.

Oh that's all fine and dandy.

It's just that you've got no freaking idea about what an Aryan is.

im only using the nazi version of what they described blond haired people, ARYANS,

maybe for you i should stick with the technical term, NORDIC,

But i will call them as I like.

If you wish to continue basing your arguments on Nazi myths, then by all means go for it.

Just don't expect me to take you seriously.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Raven

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #40 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 11:36am

Yadda wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 5:49pm:

Raven wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 4:38pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jun 30^th, 2016 at 1:33pm:

.....Jesus......I always assumed he was a composite, a messiah built by committe.

Id love to be wrong, but such is the lot of the agnostic.

Of course he was a composite.

The legend of the Nazarene has evolved over centuries, the true historical figure has been lost to the ages

So certain are you.

Psalms 2:1
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

At least quote the New Testament Yadda to back up your view

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Raven Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2982 Around	Re: Who is the real historical jesus ? Reply #41 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 12:46pm The fact is Yadda he was a composite. The only evidence we have of his life are the gospels, the earliest of which was written nearly 40 years after his crucifixion. Trying to piece together accounts of a person after 40 years is not going to create an accurate result
Back to top	Quoth the Raven "Nevermore" Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned. IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Who is the real historical jesus ? Reply #42 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 1:51pm True, Raven, although I think Joseph of Arimathea made a better messiah
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

stryder

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #43 - Jul 1^st, 2016 at 6:19pm

Raven wrote on Jul 1^st, 2016 at 12:46pm:

The fact is Yadda he was a composite. The only evidence we have of his life are the gospels, the earliest of which was written nearly 40 years after his crucifixion. Trying to piece together accounts of a person after 40 years is not going to create an accurate result

To elaborate further on your point, Jesus death most likely occured in 36 A.D, with earliest gospel mark wriiten around 70 A.D it is believed mostly by scholars of the bible that none of the four gospels were written in palestine the location for the so called greatest story ever told, and a few scholars still debate some of locations of where each of gospels were written to this very day, most scholars are certain that the gospel of mark was written in Italy, luke in greece, john in turkey, and matthew in either egypt or syria.
The dating of these gospels is important for this reason, and its pretty obvious when you really think about it is the availability of eyewitnesses to the events that are described, by the time mark began his writing in 70 A.D any living witnesses would have been aged and their memories would have been suspect to some deterioation, by the time matthew composed his in around 95 A.D - 100 A.D, he would definitely have been forced to rely on second and third hand sources, as mostly all of the eyewitnesses would have been dead by that time, the most important source would have been the book of Mark itself since its mostly believed to be the first one, the same thing would have been applied to luke which was published in around 105 A.D

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« Last Edit: Jul 1^st, 2016 at 10:49pm by stryder »

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Who is the real historical jesus ?
Reply #44 - Jul 2^nd, 2016 at 3:11am

stryder wrote on Jun 20^th, 2016 at 12:02am:

Jesus Christ is probably the best known person who ever lived and maybe there is some truth in it, his name is certainly widely known to a great segment of humanity, but I find it hard to believe he was some supernatural figure, whether the son of god or one of the three in the holy trinity, whatever.

But many people would expect me to believe in this divinely supernatural figure who died a bloody death through crucification to some how save humanity from itself and usher it in a new relationship with god,

Given how my mind works, I simply do not buy it, now I believe that jesus Christ may have existed but was just a human being like you and me, and some how he had a story behind him which has been immensely exaggerated over the centuries from a human being to this supernatural deity who is worshiped as such.

The most erroneous part of that post was to say "the best known person who ever lived". There is no truth in saying that Jesus ever lived and died as the person told in the Bible, simply because there is no evidence that can show that Jesus ever lived. Santa Claus is also a well-known person, too. Yet, he is based on lies and his existent is false.

If you could time travel back 2000 years, you would not find some teenager/young adult in Judea who could perform miracles at will, or who held audiences captive with his speeches/teachings. Most of the bible is made up of stories about mythology. The story of Jesus being among the mythology.

I can't entertain that someone would live to perform miraculous acts of God, and not be used by the Roman Empire to help alleviate suffering/make Rome even stronger. It's the whole "ho-hum" attitude of people after Jesus' death that leaves me to believe that, had Jesus been real, he did not have a major impact on his community. It feels as if the story about Jesus was that he did not want to prove his worth to people, and died as a fraud, and one massive disappointment.

I would not consider Jesus to have ever existed beyond the fables told in the Bible.

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At this stage...

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