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past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate (Read 4128 times)
lee
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past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Jun 10th, 2016 at 5:06pm
 
'Western Pacific hydroclimate linked to global climate variability over the past two millennia'

'Interdecadal modes of tropical Pacific ocean-atmosphere circulation have a strong influence on global temperature, yet the extent to which these phenomena influence global climate on multicentury timescales is still poorly known. Here we present a 2,000-year, multiproxy reconstruction of western Pacific hydroclimate from two speleothem records for southeastern Indonesia. The composite record shows pronounced shifts in monsoon rainfall that are antiphased with precipitation records for East Asia and the central-eastern equatorial Pacific. These meridional and zonal patterns are best explained by a poleward expansion of the Australasian Intertropical Convergence Zone and weakening of the Pacific Walker circulation (PWC) between ~1000 and 1500 CE Conversely, an equatorward contraction of the Intertropical Convergence Zone and strengthened PWC occurred between ~1500 and 1900 CE. Our findings, together with climate model simulations, highlight the likelihood that century-scale variations in tropical Pacific climate modes can significantly modulate radiatively forced shifts in global temperature.'

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160608/ncomms11719/full/ncomms11719.html

From Australian National University, home of Will Steffen.
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Ajax
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #1 - Jun 11th, 2016 at 11:05am
 
Very feasible, makes lots of sense.
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #2 - Jun 11th, 2016 at 11:25am
 
Scientists have found past El Niño oscillations in the Pacific Ocean may have amplified global climate fluctuations for hundreds of years at a time.

The team uncovered century-scale patterns in Pacific rainfall and temperature, and linked them with global climate changes in the past 2000 years.

For example, northern hemisphere warming and droughts between the years 950 and 1250 corresponded to an El Niño-like state in the Pacific, which switched to a La Niña-like pattern during a cold period between 1350 and 1900.

The new data will help scientists build more accurate models of future climate, said member of the research team, Alena Kimbrough, from The Australian National University.

"In the past decade or so the rise in global temperature had a brief reprieve, the so-called warming hiatus, which can be partly attributed to a persistent La Niña pattern over that period," Ms Kimbrough said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160609115117.htm
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #3 - Jun 11th, 2016 at 1:21pm
 
After all the nee-nos we hear from TV news and weather people, it is refreshing to note the tilde here.
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lee
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #4 - Jun 11th, 2016 at 7:25pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 11:25am:
"In the past decade or so the rise in global temperature had a brief reprieve, the so-called warming hiatus, which can be partly attributed to a persistent La Niña pattern over that period," Ms Kimbrough said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160609115117.htm



But if you listen to Tom Karl et la and their Sea Surface Temperature Adjustments, there was no hiatus. But on the back of his work they have adjusted global temperatures.

It is almost funny.
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #5 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 11:25am
 
lee wrote on Jun 11th, 2016 at 7:25pm:
But if you listen to Tom Karl et la and their Sea Surface Temperature Adjustments, there was no hiatus. But on the back of his work they have adjusted global temperatures.

It is almost funny.


What is even funnier is you trying to discredit air temperatures by using sea surface temperatures.

But what amuses me the most is that every denialist cherry picks there data to start from the last big el nino event in 1997-98 but when shown that 2014 and 2015 have set new global records all of a sudden it doesn't count because its an el nino year.  Grin
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #6 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 11:29am
 
I found this graph interesting.

It indicates that hiatuses are quite normal and indeed are to be expected. It seems that big el nino events like the one we have just had in 2015 - 16 elevate the global temperature to a new level where it remains until the next big el nino event

https://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/part-1-comments-on-the-ukmo-report-a...
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elnino.JPG (80 KB | )
elnino.JPG

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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #7 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:10pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 11:29am:
I found this graph interesting.

It indicates that hiatuses are quite normal and indeed are to be expected. It seems that big el nino events like the one we have just had in 2015 - 16 elevate the global temperature to a new level where it remains until the next big el nino event

https://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/part-1-comments-on-the-ukmo-report-a...


You're problem fork tongue is that,

1. The IPCC computer models never predicted or showed a hiatus as we are experiencing now......???!!!

2. You cannot prove that CO2 is responsible for the current warming. Anymore than you can explain the warming in the 1930's.

...

...
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #8 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:12pm
 
Bob Teasdale address the following assertions below,

...

Answers here

https://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/part-1-comments-on-the-ukmo-report-a...


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lee
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #9 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 5:57pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 11:25am:
What is even funnier is you trying to discredit air temperatures by using sea surface temperatures.



You do know that SST's are used in global average temperatures and anomalies don't you?

Does that tell you anything about the "hottest year evah"? it is on the back of adjusted SSTt's and Air temperatures added together.

'Land      +1.33 ± 0.18      +2.39 ± 0.32      Warmest      1st      2015      +1.33      +2.39 Coolest      136th      1884      -0.61      -1.10
Ocean      +0.74 ± 0.01      +1.33 ± 0.02      Warmest      1st      2015      +0.74      +1.33
Coolest      136th      1909      -0.45      -0.81

Land and Ocean      +0.90 ± 0.08      +1.62 ± 0.14      Warmest      1st      2015      +0.90      +1.'

'the average global temperature across land and ocean surface areas for 2015 was 0.90°C (1.62°F) above the 20th century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F)' (58.62°F)

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201513

And don't forget 1997 "The global average temperature of 62.45 degrees Fahrenheit for 1997 "

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/199713

So a ginormpus global warming of minus 3.83°F. Which makes the likelihood of 2015 or 16 being hottest ever, highly unlikely.
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« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2016 at 6:04pm by lee »  
 
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #10 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:51am
 
Ajax wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:10pm:
1. The IPCC computer models never predicted or showed a hiatus as we are experiencing now......???!!!



Correction, as we experienced from 1998 to 2013. The hiatus is over, and given that it only lasted 15 years its not considered climatically significant. Climate requires data over at least 30 years, less than that and natural variation skews the figures.

Ajax wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:10pm:
2. You cannot prove that CO2 is responsible for the current warming. Anymore than you can explain the warming in the 1930's.



There is ample evidence that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. In fact any gas molecule that contains more than 2 atoms is a greenhouse gas. (Please don't ruin another thread by spamming us with your bogus and discredited graphs again)

You conceded in another thread that the globe is warming. So please enlighten me, if CO2 isn't causing the warming then what is?
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lee
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #11 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 11:19am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:51am:
You conceded in another thread that the globe is warming. So please enlighten me, if CO2 isn't causing the warming then what is?



The "Science" according to The_Barnacle if we can't think of anything else it must be CO2. It couldn't possibly be anything else? That was the thinking during the warming, it kind of lost credence through the no readmitted hiatus. Where CO2 was climbing and temperatures weren't climbing in lockstep as hypothesised. 

Perhaps Natural Variation?
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #12 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 12:15pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 11:19am:
Perhaps Natural Variation?


That's a cop out.
Natural variation can explain the "noise" in the short term (which is why the warming hasn't happened in a geometrically straight line) but it can't be used as an excuse for the long term warming trend.

The Earth has been warming for over 100 years. That is a statistically significant length of time. Something must be causing it.
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #13 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 2:22pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 12:15pm:
The Earth has been warming for over 100 years. That is a statistically significant length of time. Something must be causing it.



And yet the IPCC says CO2 is only responsible for the warming since the 50's. How does that marry up with early 20th century warming, which has a similar rate of change?

The earth has been warming since the LIA, not just the last 100 years.

If you look at global temperatures, it is all down in the noise.
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Re: past El Niño’s ‘may have amplified global climate
Reply #14 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 10:22pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:51am:
Ajax wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:10pm:
1. The IPCC computer models never predicted or showed a hiatus as we are experiencing now......???!!!



Correction, as we experienced from 1998 to 2013. The hiatus is over, and given that it only lasted 15 years its not considered climatically significant. Climate requires data over at least 30 years, less than that and natural variation skews the figures.

Ajax wrote on Jun 12th, 2016 at 1:10pm:
2. You cannot prove that CO2 is responsible for the current warming. Anymore than you can explain the warming in the 1930's.



There is ample evidence that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. In fact any gas molecule that contains more than 2 atoms is a greenhouse gas. (Please don't ruin another thread by spamming us with your bogus and discredited graphs again)

You conceded in another thread that the globe is warming. So please enlighten me, if CO2 isn't causing the warming then what is?


Yes the earth has warmed, yes CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

BUT there is no correlation between CO2 and temperature as our history shows.

Now what caused the warming in the 1930's, cause it wasn't CO2.

The Earth heats up and cools down like history has shown us, it has nothing to do with CO2, never has and probably never will.

......
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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