Australian Politics Forum - Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders

Setanta

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #135 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:49pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns. That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here.

Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

Either that or she wasn't mentally up to the task.

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GordyL

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #136 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:50pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns. That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here.

Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

If only the curry cowboy was there to save the day.

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ian

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #137 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:52pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:

cods, the difference is that Cops have been given guns. That means they MUST be trained to use them safely, and that training ought to include preparation for the many different situations they might be confronted with....and this one ought to have been reasonably foreseeable by any competent trainer.

They are trained, thats the issue. some serious comprehension problems here.

Isn't it self evident that whatever the training was, it failed as is indicated by the shooting of bystanders?

I think its self evident this individual failed to deploy her training.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders Reply #138 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:03pm And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence.
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cods

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #139 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:08pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:18am:

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

No proper answer from anyone.

Is she being charged or not?

I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening. I doubt she'll be charged with GBH. She will be disciplined internally.

Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail.

She should be in jail -

it was reckless conduct endangering life & grievous bodily harm.

Any citizen who did what she did would be remanded in custody right now.

She could have shot at nearly point blank range - less than 1 meter & not missed & still would have been safe.

bull shite bobby.. she is legally allowed to carry a gun on the streets you and I are not simple really...

and no one is allowed to carry a knife around either...

have you ever been in a life and death situation bobs... someone here reckons he has yet has no evidence..

this was all filmed ....do you seriously think that copper wanted to shoot???????>..

the mentally disabled man was well known to the police yet he was allowed out on day release... by the look of things on his own reconnaissance..

he is known for attempted suicides....so it sounds like it was a good idea...

its all pretty sad and I feel for the ladies that were injured... but for gawds sake....try blaming the people who thought is was a good idea for him to be on the streets in the first place..

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cods

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #140 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:10pm

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence.

they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... Roll Eyes

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Setanta

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #141 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:20pm

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

And btw, the issue here is not whether she was justified in using her firearm, but the fact she did not use it properly. If it turns out as I suspect she deliberately did not shoot at centre mass then that is deliberate negligence.

they last coppers who did that to a person wielding a knife on the beach the coppers were crucified.... Roll Eyes

Why? How many cops with how many arm breaking batons?

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Bobby.

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #142 - Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:30pm

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 11:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 7:18am:

Is the policewoman being charged with GBH?

No proper answer from anyone.

Is she being charged or not?

I'm sure no-one outside the Police have any idea what is happening. I doubt she'll be charged with GBH. She will be disciplined internally.

Yet, I'll bet you that if I was the shooter and caused the same injuries in the same circumstances, I would have already been charged and be begging/pleading for bail.

She should be in jail -

it was reckless conduct endangering life & grievous bodily harm.

Any citizen who did what she did would be remanded in custody right now.

She could have shot at nearly point blank range - less than 1 meter & not missed & still would have been safe.

bull shite bobby.. she is legally allowed to carry a gun on the streets you and I are not simple really...

and no one is allowed to carry a knife around either...

have you ever been in a life and death situation bobs... someone here reckons he has yet has no evidence..

this was all filmed ....do you seriously think that copper wanted to shoot???????>..

the mentally disabled man was well known to the police yet he was allowed out on day release... by the look of things on his own reconnaissance..

he is known for attempted suicides....so it sounds like it was a good idea...

its all pretty sad and I feel for the ladies that were injured... but for gawds sake....try blaming the people who thought is was a good idea for him to be on the streets in the first place..

Cods is forgiven for shooting the messenger.

namaste

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Belgarion

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #143 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:13am

red baron wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

When I was in the Police Force and the Air Force there was only one way that you were taught to use a firearm. If you draw and fire, you fire at the centre of the seen mass. No feedback I have had since then indicates that current officers are taught any different.

You see if you have cause to draw and use your firearm then you have cause to believe that your life or someone elses' is in imminent danger.

So when you fire you are firing to kill. Make no bones about it.

The Officer in question fired point blank from four metres and missed with both shots. I can only surmise that she panicked and 'pulled' her shots, you 'have to' squeeze the trigger not ram it back or your muzzle will be dragged off the target.

She is human and it happens, luckily for her the assailant changed direction, immediately after the shots or she would have been dead meat.

One of the only posts here that makes sense. We hear at great length from the armchair experts what they would have done, but none have ever been in that situation. Its easy to say that the officer should have hit her target from that range, and in theory she should have. But range practice and the real world are different things.

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President Elect, The Mechanic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17501 Gender:	Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders Reply #144 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:15am Bobby. wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:27pm: How come Dirty Harry never misses? this is what happens when government paid positions have a "quota" put on them that 50% of the jobs have to have someone with a vagina to fill those positions ... and then they act surprised when things stuff up...
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Bobby.

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #145 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:16am

Belgarion wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:13am:

red baron wrote on Jun 10^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

When I was in the Police Force and the Air Force there was only one way that you were taught to use a firearm. If you draw and fire, you fire at the centre of the seen mass. No feedback I have had since then indicates that current officers are taught any different.

You see if you have cause to draw and use your firearm then you have cause to believe that your life or someone elses' is in imminent danger.

So when you fire you are firing to kill. Make no bones about it.

The Officer in question fired point blank from four metres and missed with both shots. I can only surmise that she panicked and 'pulled' her shots, you 'have to' squeeze the trigger not ram it back or your muzzle will be dragged off the target.

She is human and it happens, luckily for her the assailant changed direction, immediately after the shots or she would have been dead meat.

One of the only posts here that makes sense. We hear at great length from the armchair experts what they would have done, but none have ever been in that situation. Its easy to say that the officer should have hit her target from that range, and in theory she should have. But range practice and the real world are different things.

But if she's such a bad shot then why didn't she shoot him from 1 meter away? -
then she couldn't miss.

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Bobby.

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #146 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:27am

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

How come Dirty Harry never misses?

this is what happens when government paid positions have a "quota" put on them that 50% of the jobs have to have someone with a vagina to fill those positions ...

and then they act surprised when things stuff up... Roll Eyes

We don't need a police force when one man like Dirty Harry
can take on all the crooks & win:

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Belgarion

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #147 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:47am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 11^th, 2016 at 12:16am:

But if she's such a bad shot then why didn't she shoot him from 1 meter away? -
then she couldn't miss.

I was taught that if someone with a knife gets within two metres of you then they can stab you even if you have pistol drawn. It's not about being a bad shot, but the stress of the situation at the time. In theory the officer should have aimed a the centre of mass and put the offender down, but it is not so simple.

I have never been faced with such a situation, but in training to attempt to simulate the effect stress has on you , we were made to run to the point of exhaustion then had to fire a round at a man size target from five metres. I don't know where my bullet went but it was not in the target, yet I had scored very well on the formal range qualification.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders
Reply #148 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 4:31am

Belgarion wrote on Jun 9^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

So many armchair experts..... and almost every one without a clue. Roll Eyes

As someone who has not had as much firearms experience as you, I can only say that I have handled a few hand guns, rifles, and an automatic weapon on rare occasions. However, I have seen how damaging they can be on targets, and can imagine how they would damage someone. And I am speaking as someone who has been shot before.

I would love to hear more details about what circumstances the police had to react, in order to not use tasers over pistols.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25177 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Police shooting at Hornsby wounds bystanders Reply #149 - Jun 11^th, 2016 at 4:43am It's actually quite easy to miss a target from 5 metres using a hand gun. I know it is easier to hit a target when you are steady and ready. But these officers would have had little time to react to a moving target.
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