Australian Politics Forum - a mindless collective of treacherous Jews

freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #180 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:37pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:01pm:

Quote:

Yet you keep shoving it up in his, and our face.

Do you still think it is an unfair characterisation of his argument?

Yes.

Quote:

Can you see that you have carefully, and deliberately constructed a false impression of what Gandalf's position clearly is?

So this is Gandalf not saying they were a mindless collective?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 10:27am:

freediver wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

If you think these 800 people acted as some kind of mindless collective

Thats exactly what they were.

In a totally different context. "Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was."

Do try to keep up Aussie. That is the context we are discussing - the slaughter of 800 innocent people by Muhammed.

What did you think we were talking about?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39660 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #181 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:44pm Okay, run your argument by me and let's see if I get all ideological about it. According to the fairy tale, we are not talking about innocent people at all.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52178 At my desk.	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #182 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:48pm My argument is that Gandalf claimed they were a mindless collective in order to justify slaughtering them. Are you with me so far Aussie?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39660 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #183 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:57pm freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 9:48pm: My argument is that Gandalf claimed they were a mindless collective in order to justify slaughtering them. Are you with me so far Aussie? No. Leave Gandalf out of this. You start afresh with me.
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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #184 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

That's what this thread is about Aussie - Gandalf using the mindless collective argument to justify collective punishment. Obviously I don't believe it, and I hope you don't either. I am not trying to convince you it is true, I am trying to convince you it is what Gandalf has been arguing. So, let's try again.

My argument is that Gandalf claimed they were a mindless collective in order to justify slaughtering them.

Are you with me so far Aussie?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Aussie

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #185 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:07pm

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

That's what this thread is about Aussie - Gandalf using the mindless collective argument to justify collective punishment. Obviously I don't believe it, and I hope you don't either. I am not trying to convince you it is true, I am trying to convince you it is what Gandalf has been arguing. So, let's try again.

My argument is that Gandalf claimed they were a mindless collective in order to justify slaughtering them.

Are you with me so far Aussie?

No. How many times must I say it? Take your argument up with me. What happened way back then? Tell me all about it.

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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #186 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:11pm

Muhammed had already gotten rid of two of the three large Jewish tribes in Medina. Only one more stood in his way. He had already tried threatening them into converting, but they were stubborn people. If he expelled them like the other two tribes, there was a risk of them joining forces and taking revenge. So when the opportunity arose, he killed the men and rode off on the women.

He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him.

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Aussie

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #187 - Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:11pm:

Muhammed had already gotten rid of two of the three large Jewish tribes in Medina. Only one more stood in his way. He had already tried threatening them into converting, but they were stubborn people. If he expelled them like the other two tribes, there was a risk of them joining forces and taking revenge. So when the opportunity arose, he killed the men and rode off on the women.

He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him.

Is that the beginning and the end of that sky fairy tale? The totality? Nothing before of any relevance for me? I'm expected to make a judgement on that? I'm willing to, but not much point if you are keeping relevant details from me.

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Karnal

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #188 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 1:11am

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

That's what this thread is about Aussie - Gandalf using the mindless collective argument to justify collective punishment. Obviously I don't believe it, and I hope you don't either. I am not trying to convince you it is true, I am trying to convince you it is what Gandalf has been arguing. So, let's try again.

My argument is that Gandalf claimed they were a mindless collective in order to justify slaughtering them.

Are you with me so far Aussie?

So who described them as a mindless collective?

Cat got your tongue?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #189 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 11:07am freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:11pm: He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him. Never mind FD, the actual facts aren't so important are they?
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Karnal

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #190 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 11:14am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 11:07am:

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:11pm:

He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him.

Never mind FD, the actual facts aren't so important are they?

Not when FD is uncovering such vile wacism, no.

It’s so vile and sinister, FD has to make it up himself.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #191 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 11:43am

Aussie wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2016 at 10:11pm:

Muhammed had already gotten rid of two of the three large Jewish tribes in Medina. Only one more stood in his way. He had already tried threatening them into converting, but they were stubborn people. If he expelled them like the other two tribes, there was a risk of them joining forces and taking revenge. So when the opportunity arose, he killed the men and rode off on the women.

He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him.

Is that the beginning and the end of that sky fairy tale? The totality? Nothing before of any relevance for me? I'm expected to make a judgement on that? I'm willing to, but not much point if you are keeping relevant details from me.

Not at all Aussie. Its a work in progress see. For example Baron just introduced a new element to the story that I haven't seen before - that the jews were actually trying to protect Muhammad from the Quraysh who basically were trying to arrest Muhammad for his robbery. And we've just seen FD invent his own version of the 'Sonderkommandos' - always useful for reminding us of the Nazi theme. Its a dynamic story see, the actual facts aren't important.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39660 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #192 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 11:52am Quote: Its a work in progress see. I'll wait for FD to finalise his version then.
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freediver

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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #193 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 8:11pm

Quote:

Is that the beginning and the end of that sky fairy tale? The totality? Nothing before of any relevance for me? I'm expected to make a judgement on that? I'm willing to, but not much point if you are keeping relevant details from me.

Not sure what you are asking me Aussie. You asked me what happened. I told you. If you want pages of detail, google it.

Is it reasonable to assume from how fast you backed away from defending Gandalf that you also find his "mindless collective" justification disturbing?

Quote:

Not at all Aussie. Its a work in progress see. For example Baron just introduced a new element to the story that I haven't seen before - that the jews were actually trying to protect Muhammad from the Quraysh who basically were trying to arrest Muhammad for his robbery. And we've just seen FD invent his own version of the 'Sonderkommandos' - always useful for reminding us of the Nazi theme. Its a dynamic story see, the actual facts aren't important.

It is not my invention Gandalf. It is probably from Abu if not you. It is not my fault, or my invention, that your religion has so much in common with Nazism. Muhammed slaughtered Jews.

How about your recently acquired belief that it never happened? Is that what you were getting at with your "mainstream historical" version? Is there anything more to it that insisting it is wrong because the transmission of the history was tainted by Jews?

Was it you who said that two of the Jews escaped by 'disowning' their treachery?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39660 Gender:	Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews Reply #194 - Jun 13^th, 2016 at 8:14pm Quote: You asked me what happened. I told you. If you want pages of detail, google it. I don't want pages of detail either. Can't you give me a nutshell version?
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