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Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again (Read 33542 times)
Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #195 - Jun 7th, 2016 at 2:42pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 7th, 2016 at 2:31pm:


Which every eligible Australian citizen is entitled to. Not just Aboriginal people.
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Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #196 - Jun 7th, 2016 at 4:38pm
 
@ Raven

Quote:
Following outcry from Indigenous communities common sense prevailed and humanrights.gov.au further stated

Quote:
SRAs should not be used to negotiate the delivery of primary health care access or the delivery of essential infrastructure provision -such as water supply, sanitation and sewerage.


That's human rights watch merely saying it shouldn't be done, which is a natural tendency of such an organisation. It doesn't say it was done.

Way back in the day, when SRAs were implemented, I read many of them. None of them stated that Aborigines would be given sanitation, water supply and sewerage, in exchange for getting the kids to school, or washing faces.

It's all online. Produce a single SRA that did this, and I will humbly believe you and crawl under a rock.

Quote:
Ok but people living in those houses still have to pay rent.

Let's use QLD as an example

Quote:
If you are living in a remote Indigenous community, your rent is assessed based on the income of each person living in the property. This means that all households will pay either approximately 25% of their total assessable (after-tax) income as rent or the maximum rent, whichever is the lower amount.


Maximum rent on Communities is:

1 bedroom - $90 p/w
2 bedrooms - $105 p/w
3 bedrooms - $120 p/w
4 bedrooms - $150 p/w

Rent on Indigenous communities
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Ok, cheap rent though it is, I'll concede that point.

Tell me, what happens if the aboriginals trash the house the government built for them, and then subsidised via cheap rent?

Cheers,
Nicole
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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #197 - Jun 9th, 2016 at 4:15pm
 
Nicole

Quote:
That's human rights watch merely saying it shouldn't be done, which is a natural tendency of such an organisation. It doesn't say it was done.

Way back in the day, when SRAs were implemented, I read many of them. None of them stated that Aborigines would be given sanitation, water supply and sewerage, in exchange for getting the kids to school, or washing faces.

It's all online. Produce a single SRA that did this, and I will humbly believe you and crawl under a rock.


Do you have a link? The only one I have is http://www.indigenous.gov.au/sra.html which when clicked on says page not found.

However according to the human rights website there is limited information available publicly about the content of SRAs. SRAs are not made available publicly because of privacy reasons, although summaries of most of the agreements can be found in the above link which doesn't seem to work.

One thing I was able to find is a 2006 report for the Minister for Water Resources on Water Services in Discrete Indigenous Communities, the report talks of infrastructure funding and construction work and essential services (including internal plumbing) and is stated a number of times that SRAs may assist with construction in some communities.

No whether or not SRAs were conditional on communities in return for thinks like water and sewerage Raven can not say for sure. However he has been in Communities with Corran where government representatives have implied this to be the case. Of course this was in the early days of SRA's and it is unlikely a condition such as that would have been enacted upon.

Quote:
Ok, cheap rent though it is, I'll concede that point.


Of course it’s cheap they're not living in Centennial Park or Darling Point.

Quote:
Tell me, what happens if the aboriginals trash the house the government built for them, and then subsidised via cheap rent?


According to the Aboriginal Housing Policy Manual For Remote & Town-Based
Communities (WA)

Quote:
Tenants are responsible for the cost of:

All internal and external maintenance and repairs to a property caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness (whether by misuse or otherwise).

Heavy cleaning and rubbish removal, including derelict vehicles and car bodies.

Damage will be repaired as per the policy in which the item falls under however tenant liability will be charged if the damage was caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness.

During occupation or on vacation:

A tenant liability charge may be incurred during occupation or on vacation.


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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #198 - Jun 10th, 2016 at 2:55pm
 
@ Raven

Quote:
Do you have a link? The only one I have is http://www.indigenous.gov.au/sra.html which when clicked on says page not found.

However according to the human rights website there is limited information available publicly about the content of SRAs. SRAs are not made available publicly because of privacy reasons, although summaries of most of the agreements can be found in the above link which doesn't seem to work.


I haven't read SRAs since they were active and implemented. Given you can't find any, I assume that now they are policy dead wood, the links detailing the agreements have been taken down.

What I do recall is they were quite specific, and I didn't read a single one that demanded Aboriginals must conform in exchange for basic services.

Quote:
One thing I was able to find is a 2006 report for the Minister for Water Resources on Water Services in Discrete Indigenous Communities, the report talks of infrastructure funding and construction work and essential services (including internal plumbing) and is stated a number of times that SRAs may assist with construction in some communities.

No whether or not SRAs were conditional on communities in return for thinks like water and sewerage Raven can not say for sure. However he has been in Communities with Corran where government representatives have implied this to be the case. Of course this was in the early days of SRA's and it is unlikely a condition such as that would have been enacted upon.


Ok. We're agreed then.

Quote:
According to the Aboriginal Housing Policy Manual For Remote & Town-Based
Communities (WA)

Quote:
Tenants are responsible for the cost of:

All internal and external maintenance and repairs to a property caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness (whether by misuse or otherwise).

Heavy cleaning and rubbish removal, including derelict vehicles and car bodies.

Damage will be repaired as per the policy in which the item falls under however tenant liability will be charged if the damage was caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness.

During occupation or on vacation:

A tenant liability charge may be incurred during occupation or on vacation.


Ok I see the policy, but I question it's enforcement. Perhaps Aboriginals trashing houses that the governments then pay to repair is a myth?

Cheers,
Nicole
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Gnads
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #199 - Jun 10th, 2016 at 6:35pm
 
It's not a myth.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #200 - Jun 10th, 2016 at 10:19pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 6:35pm:
It's not a myth.


You're a myth it appears...   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #201 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 1:17pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 6:35pm:
It's not a myth.


Then please show your evidence.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #202 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 1:49pm
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jun 10th, 2016 at 2:55pm:
Quote:
According to the Aboriginal Housing Policy Manual For Remote & Town-Based
Communities (WA)

Quote:
Tenants are responsible for the cost of:

All internal and external maintenance and repairs to a property caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness (whether by misuse or otherwise).

Heavy cleaning and rubbish removal, including derelict vehicles and car bodies.

Damage will be repaired as per the policy in which the item falls under however tenant liability will be charged if the damage was caused intentionally or through neglect or recklessness.

During occupation or on vacation:

A tenant liability charge may be incurred during occupation or on vacation.


Ok I see the policy, but I question it's enforcement. Perhaps Aboriginals trashing houses that the governments then pay to repair is a myth?

Cheers,
Nicole


Oh it's enforced

As stated the tenant is responsible for all damage to properties other than fair wear and tear.

In many States tenants have the option of fixing any damage themselves or contacting the Housing Authority and they will arrange repairs and apply a debit to the tenants account. Any repairs done by the tenants must be completed to an acceptable standard deemed so by the Housing Authority.

Deliberate or reckless damage to properties results in the Housing Authority taking action to end tenancy.

Any unpaid debts from ex-tenants will be followed by a debt collection agency to recover the money.

If anybody has debts for damage owed to the department they will not be provided with further housing until this debt is paid in full.

But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.

Sara Hudson from the Centre for Independent Studies in St Leonards, NSW, says that

Quote:
Although vandalism to houses is evident in some communities, the widespread assumption that Aborigines destroy their houses is false [3]. Rather, studies conducted over a seven-year period (from 1999 to 2006) found that the major causes of ‘house failure’ were lack of routine maintenance and faulty construction and design.

Of the 4,343 houses surveyed in 132 communities, only 11% passed national standard safety. In 50% of houses, there was no tub or bath to wash a child in, and only 35 per cent of houses had a functioning shower.


Architect Paul Pholeros has 30 years’ experience in Aboriginal housing. He says that 60% of housing problems arise from poor maintenance, 25% from poor initial construction and only 8% from damage and abuse by its tenants.

He goes on to say

Quote:
Builders cause many housing defects when they use solutions that work in coastal areas but not in remote Australia. Heater elements which operate for years in water used in coastal areas of Australia are covered with a solid salt crust after a few years of operation in Central Australia.


Only 30% of the showers he has seen work, only 10% of the houses had safe electrical installations.

Builders are poorly supervised during the construction process, Mr Pholeros told, and houses not tested after completion. Some builders “take off after 95% of the work is done” leaving the house incomplete: tabs without water, toilets without drains. Some people pay rent for a house that has no running water, no toilet or shower.

So it comes to no surprise that Aboriginal people are fed up with their housing conditions. On July 15, 2009 dozens of Ampilatwatja people, three hours north-east of Alice Springs in the centre of Australia, abandoned their community altogether because the sewerage system failed. Raw sewage flooded the streets, a condition described as “the worst he’s ever seen anywhere in the nation” by Adam Giles, then Northern Territory opposition spokesperson on Indigenous Policy now Chief Minister.
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Gnads
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #203 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:58am
 
Quote:
But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.


then who makes them do it if they are "unwilling"
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #204 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 9:17am
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:58am:
Quote:
But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.


then who makes them do it if they are "unwilling"


The masked closet pom racist Gnads.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #205 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 2:37am
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:58am:
Quote:
But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.


then who makes them do it if they are "unwilling"


You truly are a product of your time aren't you. Comments like that act as a catalyst for a conversation long overdue in Australia. It exposes, in your case, a sometimes subtle, sometimes overt, but ever-present undercurrent of anti-Indigenous prejudice, possibly the biggest blight on Australia's cultural landscape.

Progress is always made with the collision of ideas, which can range from vitriolic to violent, but rarely is progress made without some form of conflict.

As John Stuart Mill said, an erroneous opinion debated against a correct one will eventually result in "the clearer perception and livelier impressions of truth, produced by its collision with error."
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

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Gnads
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #206 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:03am
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 9:17am:
Gnads wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:58am:
Quote:
But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.


then who makes them do it if they are "unwilling"


The masked closet pom racist Gnads.


You calling anyone a racist is pure hypocrisy
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #207 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:19am
 
Raven wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 2:37am:
Gnads wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:58am:
Quote:
But the fact is Aboriginal people do not willingly destroy homes they live in.


then who makes them do it if they are "unwilling"


You truly are a product of your time aren't you. Comments like that act as a catalyst for a conversation long overdue in Australia. It exposes, in your case, a sometimes subtle, sometimes overt, but ever-present undercurrent of anti-Indigenous prejudice, possibly the biggest blight on Australia's cultural landscape.

Progress is always made with the collision of ideas, which can range from vitriolic to violent, but rarely is progress made without some form of conflict.

As John Stuart Mill said, an erroneous opinion debated against a correct one will eventually result in "the clearer perception and livelier impressions of truth, produced by its collision with error." 






And this is common in remote communities & even urban towns & cities.

So you tell me how this sort of problem is rectified

or who is responsible?

How many of those decade long unemployed/unskilled locals could do the work of repairing these damaged houses instead of outside contracted tradesmen?
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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