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Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again (Read 33345 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #150 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:17pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:40pm:
innocentbystander. wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 9:56pm:
[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1464149382/142#142 date=1464349357] The overwhelming majority of Australians believe in Multiculturalism so it works for them.  It's the mewling obstructionists who don't accept it that are the problem. 



Yeah those darn muslims again ... but what are you gonna do  Sad


Most Muslims accept and believe in Multiculturalism.   It appears to me that there are more than sufficient white, nominally Christian, invariably Ango-Saxon/Celtic descended people who don't accept it for some obscure reason.  Perhaps they fear giving people from other cultures respect?  Roll Eyes


Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism eh?  You can of course demonstrate that.  Cool
Quote:
Yes.

[quote]
PS, if as you argued the overwhelming majority of Australians believe that multiculturalism works wouldn't that include the white, nominally Christian, invariably Anglo Saxon descended people? 


Most of them, yes, it does.   However, most of the obstructionists who abhore Multiculturalism appear to be drawn from a subset of that group for some reason.   I wonder, do they resent that other cultures are considered equal with their own?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You need to bring to the table both some evidence and some internal consistency.


Plenty of both.
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Secret Wars
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #151 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:17pm:
Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:40pm:
[quote author=innocentbystander. link=1464149382/144#144 date=1464350205][quote author=Brian_Ross link=1464149382/142#142 date=1464349357] The overwhelming majority of Australians believe in Multiculturalism so it works for them.  It's the mewling obstructionists who don't accept it that are the problem. 



Yeah those darn muslims again ... but what are you gonna do  Sad


Most Muslims accept and believe in Multiculturalism.   It appears to me that there are more than sufficient white, nominally Christian, invariably Ango-Saxon/Celtic descended people who don't accept it for some obscure reason.  Perhaps they fear giving people from other cultures respect?  Roll Eyes


Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism eh?  You can of course demonstrate that.  Cool
Quote:
Yes.

Quote:
PS, if as you argued the overwhelming majority of Australians believe that multiculturalism works wouldn't that include the white, nominally Christian, invariably Anglo Saxon descended people? 


Most of them, yes, it does.   However, most of the obstructionists who abhore Multiculturalism appear to be drawn from a subset of that group for some reason.   I wonder, do they resent that other cultures are considered equal with their own?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You need to bring to the table both some evidence and some internal consistency.


Plenty of both.


I see a yes, I don't see you demonstrating that. 

Your claim Brian. Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism.  Your words and yours to prove.
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #152 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:37pm
 
How did we get here from teachers being monstered in Aurukun?

Stick a few Muslims or Somalis in Aurukun and see what happens!

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

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Toughen up, Australia!
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #153 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:17pm:
Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:40pm:
[quote author=innocentbystander. link=1464149382/144#144 date=1464350205][quote author=Brian_Ross link=1464149382/142#142 date=1464349357] The overwhelming majority of Australians believe in Multiculturalism so it works for them.  It's the mewling obstructionists who don't accept it that are the problem. 



Yeah those darn muslims again ... but what are you gonna do  Sad


Most Muslims accept and believe in Multiculturalism.   It appears to me that there are more than sufficient white, nominally Christian, invariably Ango-Saxon/Celtic descended people who don't accept it for some obscure reason.  Perhaps they fear giving people from other cultures respect?  Roll Eyes


Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism eh?  You can of course demonstrate that.  Cool
Quote:
Yes.

Quote:
PS, if as you argued the overwhelming majority of Australians believe that multiculturalism works wouldn't that include the white, nominally Christian, invariably Anglo Saxon descended people? 


Most of them, yes, it does.   However, most of the obstructionists who abhore Multiculturalism appear to be drawn from a subset of that group for some reason.   I wonder, do they resent that other cultures are considered equal with their own?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You need to bring to the table both some evidence and some internal consistency.


Plenty of both.


I see a yes, I don't see you demonstrating that. 

Your claim Brian. Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism.  Your words and yours to prove. 


Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #154 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:41pm
 

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:37pm:
How did we get here from teachers being monstered in Aurukun?

Stick a few Muslims or Somalis in Aurukun and see what happens!

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


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Toughen up, Australia!
 
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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #155 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:50pm
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 4:34pm:
@ Brian Ross

Quote:
My thoughts are that SRAs are imposed on communities by a government which does not want to admit that their past paternalistic policies have failed. 


In what way are they 'imposed'? They are negotiated with Elders. Have you ever read an SRA Brian?


In a lot of instances Nicole they had to agree to behavioural change contracts in order to access government funding, including funding for basic citizenship services and entitlements. In the case of the first publicly announced SRA this was a petrol bowser and health checks from the Government in return for hygiene measures including face washing. This was to address trachoma rates in the Mulan community.

SRAs accounted for only about one per cent of Federal Indigenous expenditure. How can fiddling with one per cent of Indigenous funding make any real impact, particularly on Indigenous disadvantage?

By focusing public debate on SRAs, the Government evaded scrutiny over the other 99 per cent of Indigenous funding.

During the course of the SRAs the Indigenous Affairs Minister would often explain the need to listen directly to local communities and families so that ‘our funding hits the mark’.

Quote:
We can only do this by listening directly to local communities and families. We cannot rely on the intermediaries to do the job for us


Intermediaries was of course ATSIC.

Quote:
Aboriginal people do not require ATSIC, or consultants or people with clipboards to speak on their behalf.

ATSIC was a Western construct which allowed governments to satisfy themselves that they were consulting Indigenous people and meeting their needs


Though ATSIC had it's difficulties Indigenous communities and a range of Indigenous service organisations interfaced with ATSIC Regional Councils, providing a largely Indigenous-controlled consultation and governance structure for setting local and regional priorities. This structure provided significant Indigenous participation in and control of policy development and service delivery.

What replaced ATSIC was a new ‘Western construct’ – the unelected, bureaucrat-driven Indigenous Coordination Centres (‘ICC’s) which are the Government’s mainstream agency one-stop-shops. It seems the clipboard has a secure future in Indigenous affairs after all.

The fact that SRAs were not legally enforceable placed all of the power with the Government and very little in the hands of communities. The Government can drag its heels or renege on funding if it chooses.  For example, Murdi Paaki did not received any of the 200 air conditioners promised by the Government in an SRA signed for 3 years. We are still unsure if Mulan got it's bowser.

No sanctions were available to communities who felt let down by the Government. There was no mechanism to independently scrutinise whether the Government was meeting its responsibilities and compel it to act.

What was most offensive about SRAs to Indigenous people is that they were racially discriminatory and patronising. They make funding conditional on behavioural change and other commitments which were not required from non-Indigenous communities.

SRAs also reinforce negative stereotypes about Aboriginal people. By implying a need for measures by the Government to force Indigenous communities and families to act responsibly, they conceal Indigenous initiative and success in taking responsibility for community problems. Instead, the Government claims the credit. For example, when the Mulan SRA became public, the Government neglected to mention that the community had already cut trachoma rates as a result of its own initiative. It had been running the face washing program for 18 months prior to signing the SRA.

This detail was conveniently overlooked by the Federal Education, Science and Training Minister, Brendan Nelson

Quote:
Six months after the government enduring accusations of paternalism, the results are mind blowing. Trachoma which afflicted 70% of children is now undetectable.


A further advantage to the government is that the community level provides a micro scale that is distanced from ‘headline indicators’ and national statistics, yet significant enough to provide public relations mileage out of the success of relatively minor projects. It is much easier to achieve and get credit for a positive outcome in a single community as against the huge task of achieving the same level of outcome on a national scale.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Secret Wars
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #156 - May 28th, 2016 at 12:00am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm:
Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Actually no.  Not up to me to disprove it.  Up to you to provide evidence for what you claimed.   

In adult debates you provide supporting evidence for what you claim.  You made a very simple assertion, that most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism.  Your words, no one forced you to say them. 

Your evidence for what you claimed is....? 
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Aussie
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #157 - May 28th, 2016 at 1:55pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Nicole Page 2016 said she had some idea
s
about this.  I am yet to read
them
.  When will that happen?


Hello, anyone home?  Were you just bullshitting Nichole Page 2016 when you said you had some idea you would post?
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #158 - May 28th, 2016 at 7:12pm
 
Hello Raven  Smiley

Quote:
In a lot of instances Nicole they had to agree to behavioural change contracts in order to access government funding, including funding for basic citizenship services and entitlements. In the case of the first publicly announced SRA this was a petrol bowser and health checks from the Government in return for hygiene measures including face washing. This was to address trachoma rates in the Mulan community.


Yes. The SRA was dependent on some sort of behavioural change, like getting kids to school. No one puts a petrol pump or swimming pool in my backyard if I don't send my boy to school. In fact, if I don't send my boy to school the authorities will come down on me like a ton of bricks.

Can you flesh out the bit I have highlighted in yellow please?

Quote:
SRAs accounted for only about one per cent of Federal Indigenous expenditure. How can fiddling with one per cent of Indigenous funding make any real impact, particularly on Indigenous disadvantage?

By focusing public debate on SRAs, the Government evaded scrutiny over the other 99 per cent of Indigenous funding.

During the course of the SRAs the Indigenous Affairs Minister would often explain the need to listen directly to local communities and families so that ‘our funding hits the mark’.


What's the "other 99%" of indigenous funding spent on?

And what's wrong with what the Indigenous Affairs minister said? It makes sense to me, btw, if you're rolling out a new program (like SRAs) to take a small bite, and test it. If it works, allocate it more funding.

Quote:
Though ATSIC had it's difficulties Indigenous communities and a range of Indigenous service organisations interfaced with ATSIC Regional Councils, providing a largely Indigenous-controlled consultation and governance structure for setting local and regional priorities. This structure provided significant Indigenous participation in and control of policy development and service delivery.

What replaced ATSIC was a new ‘Western construct’ – the unelected, bureaucrat-driven Indigenous Coordination Centres (‘ICC’s) which are the Government’s mainstream agency one-stop-shops. It seems the clipboard has a secure future in Indigenous affairs after all.


I'd be very, very careful about spruiking the 'merits' of ATSIC, Raven. I note you prefaced your comments by saying, "although ATSIC had it's difficulties...".

Quote:
The fact that SRAs were not legally enforceable placed all of the power with the Government and very little in the hands of communities. The Government can drag its heels or renege on funding if it chooses.  For example, Murdi Paaki did not received any of the 200 air conditioners promised by the Government in an SRA signed for 3 years. We are still unsure if Mulan got it's bowser.

No sanctions were available to communities who felt let down by the Government. There was no mechanism to independently scrutinise whether the Government was meeting its responsibilities and compel it to act.


Ok. I hear you on that.  Wink

Quote:
What was most offensive about SRAs to Indigenous people is that they were racially discriminatory and patronising. They make funding conditional on behavioural change and other commitments which were not required from non-Indigenous communities.


Non- Indigenous communities don't get swimming pools for simply sending their kids to school! On the contrary, our children can be removed from us if we don't do it.

I'll ask of you Raven, what's your solution?

Cheers,
Nicole
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Aussie
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #159 - May 28th, 2016 at 7:29pm
 
Quote:
I'll ask of you Raven, what's your solution?

Cheers,
Nicole



Questions, questions and more questions.  When will those ideas you proudly told us you had ever see the light of day?

This is just so reminiscent of another Member here who often told us they would produce something, and never ever, ever did.
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cods
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #160 - May 28th, 2016 at 7:35pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Aussie wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Nicole Page 2016 said she had some idea
s
about this.  I am yet to read
them
.  When will that happen?


Hello, anyone home?  Were you just bullshitting Nichole Page 2016 when you said you had some idea you would post?



well I have asked several time what is Cl;ive up too and you never asnsere

you didnt even bother to tell the world of OZ that he wont be running for the senate..

3 cheers to that...

unless of course you are at his meetings trying to change his perverted mind...

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Aussie
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #161 - May 28th, 2016 at 7:44pm
 
cods wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
[quote author=Aussie link=1464149382/145#145 date=1464350413]Nicole Page 2016 said she had some idea
s
about this.  I am yet to read
them
.  When will that happen?


Hello, anyone home?  Were you just bullshitting Nichole Page 2016 when you said you had some idea you would post?



Quote:
well I have asked several time what is Cl;ive up too and you never asnsere


Perhaps you missed my answer to that very question you asked in the PUP Thread.

Quote:
you didnt even bother to tell the world of OZ that he wont be running for the senate..


Indeed I did.  You were posting about his intent to run for the Senate some days after he announced (and I posted here) that he was not running.

Quote:
3 cheers to that...

unless of course you are at his meetings trying to change his perverted mind...



I have never attended any Meetings trying to change anyone's perverted mind, cods.  Where do you get this silly stuff from?
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #162 - May 28th, 2016 at 8:47pm
 
cods wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Aussie wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Nicole Page 2016 said she had some idea
s
about this.  I am yet to read
them
.  When will that happen?


Hello, anyone home?  Were you just bullshitting Nichole Page 2016 when you said you had some idea you would post?



well I have asked several time what is Cl;ive up too and you never asnsere

you didnt even bother to tell the world of OZ that he wont be running for the senate..

3 cheers to that...

unless of course you are at his meetings trying to change his perverted mind...



Hello cods,

I will put effort in where it's warranted - as in the case of Raven above.

But in the case of obsessive, mindless retards like Aussie - well, why waste troll food?

Cheers,
Nicole
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Aussie
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #163 - May 28th, 2016 at 8:59pm
 
The only effort you have put in, Nicole Page 2016, is to ask questions sometimes superficially clad in vacuous commentary.  All you are doing, is riding on the coat-tails of what others post......just with questions.

Pages ago, you promised us you had some ideas of you own.

When will we ever see them?  (If we are not to be blessed with them, and I'm sure they'd be ever so awesome, just say so, and I can get some sleep at night not having to obsess about it.)

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Brian Ross
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #164 - May 30th, 2016 at 1:04am
 
*SIGH*, why not answer him, Nicole.  It'd shut him up...   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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