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Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again (Read 33343 times)
Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #165 - May 30th, 2016 at 1:12am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:04am:
*SIGH*, why not answer him, Nicole.  It'd shut him up...   Roll Eyes


Ive run out of troll food for him *shrug*
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cods
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #166 - May 30th, 2016 at 8:17am
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 8:47pm:
cods wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Aussie wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Nicole Page 2016 said she had some idea
s
about this.  I am yet to read
them
.  When will that happen?


Hello, anyone home?  Were you just bullshitting Nichole Page 2016 when you said you had some idea you would post?



well I have asked several time what is Cl;ive up too and you never asnsere

you didnt even bother to tell the world of OZ that he wont be running for the senate..

3 cheers to that...

unless of course you are at his meetings trying to change his perverted mind...



Hello cods,

I will put effort in where it's warranted - as in the case of Raven above.

But in the case of obsessive, mindless retards like Aussie - well, why waste troll food?

Cheers,
Nicole



well done to you... his questions are beneath most people.... but he persists like a leach.......... painful..

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Aussie
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #167 - May 30th, 2016 at 8:48am
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:12am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 30th, 2016 at 1:04am:
*SIGH*, why not answer him, Nicole.  It'd shut him up...   Roll Eyes


Ive run out of troll food for him *shrug*


"Translation" ~ 'I have no ideas and I am now busy trying to evade being exposed as bereft of an original thought.'
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Gnads
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #168 - May 30th, 2016 at 9:49am
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:31pm:
Secret Wars wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:26pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:15pm:
Aboriginals have been fragmented, isolated and excluded from closet pom society.

Before any rational and reasonable solutions can be developed they have to be united. Those that want and can be included in closet pom society should be supported and encouraged. Those that don't want to be engaged in closet pom society should be allowed to create an alternative society they are comfortable with.


I have no clue what a closet Pom society is.  If you mean supported and encouraged to get educated, get jobs, get houses then check.  Already happening. 

Those that don't want can create alternative society's if they like.  But who pays?  If the alternative society is living out in the bush with gubmint providing the housing and money then you have...a settlement. 

So your solution divorced from its emotive rhetoric is more of the same, the status quo. 

Congratulations. 


You missed the point of unifying them instead of fragmenting them as all past governments have done.

All governments fear a unified Aboriginal society acting as one entity. Their power would be enormous
.


Keep waffling garbage ... your ignorance is expanding.

The problem is and always has been unifying & putting the different tribal groups in one place does not work.

They fight all the time.

So there would never be a unified Aboriginal society unless you closed all the remote communities(which you looney lefties are decrying) and move them into large regional towns & cities where they would lose all their cultural identity and language becoming city Murries & be likely to be bred out by inter marriage etc ... and that too would be decried as cultural genocide by idiots like you.

There are 12 different communities on the Cape .. and this sort of thing happens in them all from time to time to some degree but Aurukun is always at a greater level.

These people are free to come & go as they please & they do.... they return because it's their country and that's where they want to live.

Being on/close to country is part of what makes them Aboriginal.

All your personal rambling is just delusional nonsense.

You know naff all.
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« Last Edit: May 30th, 2016 at 9:57am by Gnads »  

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #169 - May 30th, 2016 at 5:36pm
 
bump

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 28th, 2016 at 7:12pm:
Hello Raven  Smiley

Quote:
In a lot of instances Nicole they had to agree to behavioural change contracts in order to access government funding, including funding for basic citizenship services and entitlements. In the case of the first publicly announced SRA this was a petrol bowser and health checks from the Government in return for hygiene measures including face washing. This was to address trachoma rates in the Mulan community.


Yes. The SRA was dependent on some sort of behavioural change, like getting kids to school. No one puts a petrol pump or swimming pool in my backyard if I don't send my boy to school. In fact, if I don't send my boy to school the authorities will come down on me like a ton of bricks.

Can you flesh out the bit I have highlighted in yellow please?

Quote:
SRAs accounted for only about one per cent of Federal Indigenous expenditure. How can fiddling with one per cent of Indigenous funding make any real impact, particularly on Indigenous disadvantage?

By focusing public debate on SRAs, the Government evaded scrutiny over the other 99 per cent of Indigenous funding.

During the course of the SRAs the Indigenous Affairs Minister would often explain the need to listen directly to local communities and families so that ‘our funding hits the mark’.


What's the "other 99%" of indigenous funding spent on?

And what's wrong with what the Indigenous Affairs minister said? It makes sense to me, btw, if you're rolling out a new program (like SRAs) to take a small bite, and test it. If it works, allocate it more funding.

Quote:
Though ATSIC had it's difficulties Indigenous communities and a range of Indigenous service organisations interfaced with ATSIC Regional Councils, providing a largely Indigenous-controlled consultation and governance structure for setting local and regional priorities. This structure provided significant Indigenous participation in and control of policy development and service delivery.

What replaced ATSIC was a new ‘Western construct’ – the unelected, bureaucrat-driven Indigenous Coordination Centres (‘ICC’s) which are the Government’s mainstream agency one-stop-shops. It seems the clipboard has a secure future in Indigenous affairs after all.


I'd be very, very careful about spruiking the 'merits' of ATSIC, Raven. I note you prefaced your comments by saying, "although ATSIC had it's difficulties...".

Quote:
The fact that SRAs were not legally enforceable placed all of the power with the Government and very little in the hands of communities. The Government can drag its heels or renege on funding if it chooses.  For example, Murdi Paaki did not received any of the 200 air conditioners promised by the Government in an SRA signed for 3 years. We are still unsure if Mulan got it's bowser.

No sanctions were available to communities who felt let down by the Government. There was no mechanism to independently scrutinise whether the Government was meeting its responsibilities and compel it to act.


Ok. I hear you on that.  Wink

Quote:
What was most offensive about SRAs to Indigenous people is that they were racially discriminatory and patronising. They make funding conditional on behavioural change and other commitments which were not required from non-Indigenous communities.


Non- Indigenous communities don't get swimming pools for simply sending their kids to school! On the contrary, our children can be removed from us if we don't do it.

I'll ask of you Raven, what's your solution?

Cheers,
Nicole

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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #170 - May 30th, 2016 at 5:45pm
 
Quote:
"Think carefully before you answer this question."


When will we ever read your much heralded and yet to be delivered ideas?  How many days have we been waiting now, Nuck Hole?

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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #171 - May 30th, 2016 at 6:13pm
 
Hi Nicole.

Quote:
Yes. The SRA was dependent on some sort of behavioural change, like getting kids to school. No one puts a petrol pump or swimming pool in my backyard if I don't send my boy to school. In fact, if I don't send my boy to school the authorities will come down on me like a ton of bricks.

Can you flesh out the bit I have highlighted in yellow please?


SRAs went a bit further than that. The government would essentially tell communities  'You need a shared responsibility agreement for us to deliver normal citizenship entitlements that other Australians take for granted. We will give you a school, water, power, sewerage, if you behave in a particular way."

Raven is not denied any of these just because he may decide not to send his kids to school.

Quote:
And what's wrong with what the Indigenous Affairs minister said? It makes sense to me, btw, if you're rolling out a new program (like SRAs) to take a small bite, and test it. If it works, allocate it more funding.


the minister said "We can only do this by listening directly to local communities and families. We cannot rely on the intermediaries to do the job for us"

She then promptly put in place  intermediaries to do the job for them and immediately ignored local communities and families.

Quote:
I'll ask of you Raven, what's your solution?


The hardest question in Aboriginal affairs and the answer unfortunately is there is no one solution. What works for one community may not work for another.

One community (actually it's a number of communities) that is more successful than most is Tiwi Island.

There the government has given the option for public housing tenants to buy their homes. There is also a strong football culture and they have there own league. In fact the Tiwi Island grand final is just as popular as the NTFL grand final. You actually have to book months in advance to get a ferry ticket or flight to the Islands to watch the game.



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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Secret Wars
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #172 - May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm:
Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Now, unless you can produce evidence - statistical, not anecdotal - that the majority of AUSTRALIAN Muslims are NOT "law abiding", piss off.    Roll Eyes


Hilarious bookend I thought, the Brian Ross method of "debate", if he makes a statement he doesn't need to provide evidence or prove it in any way, if however, someone else makes a statement he puffs up and demands evidence.

Clown.  Cool
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #173 - May 31st, 2016 at 5:56pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm:
Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Now, unless you can produce evidence - statistical, not anecdotal - that the majority of AUSTRALIAN Muslims are NOT "law abiding", piss off.    Roll Eyes


Hilarious bookend I thought, the Brian Ross method of "debate", if he makes a statement he doesn't need to provide evidence or prove it in any way, if however, someone else makes a statement he puffs up and demands evidence.

Clown.  Cool



Different circumstances, difference context.  Keep trying, one day you'll graduate from clown school...   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Secret Wars
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #174 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Secret Wars wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:39pm:
Nope.  Yours to disprove.   I made a statement.  Up to you to disprove it.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian Ross wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 2:34pm:
Now, unless you can produce evidence - statistical, not anecdotal - that the majority of AUSTRALIAN Muslims are NOT "law abiding", piss off.    Roll Eyes


Hilarious bookend I thought, the Brian Ross method of "debate", if he makes a statement he doesn't need to provide evidence or prove it in any way, if however, someone else makes a statement he puffs up and demands evidence.

Clown.  Cool



Different circumstances, difference context.  Keep trying, one day you'll graduate from clown school...   Roll Eyes


Your claim still awaits evidence.  It needs more than just a unsubstantiated statement from you.  In adult debate you are expected to provide evidence for your claim. 

The exact same standard you demand from others. 

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Secret Wars
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #175 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:16pm
 
A reminder

Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:17pm:
Secret Wars wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:40pm:
[quote author=innocentbystander. link=1464149382/144#144 date=1464350205][quote author=Brian_Ross link=1464149382/142#142 date=1464349357] The overwhelming majority of Australians believe in Multiculturalism so it works for them.  It's the mewling obstructionists who don't accept it that are the problem. 



Yeah those darn muslims again ... but what are you gonna do  Sad


Most Muslims accept and believe in Multiculturalism.   It appears to me that there are more than sufficient white, nominally Christian, invariably Ango-Saxon/Celtic descended people who don't accept it for some obscure reason.  Perhaps they fear giving people from other cultures respect?  Roll Eyes


Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism eh?  You can of course demonstrate that.  Cool
Quote:
Yes.

Quote:
PS, if as you argued the overwhelming majority of Australians believe that multiculturalism works wouldn't that include the white, nominally Christian, invariably Anglo Saxon descended people? 


Most of them, yes, it does.   However, most of the obstructionists who abhore Multiculturalism appear to be drawn from a subset of that group for some reason.   I wonder, do they resent that other cultures are considered equal with their own?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You need to bring to the table both some evidence and some internal consistency.


Plenty of both.


I see a yes, I don't see you demonstrating that. 

Your claim Brian. Most Muslims accept and believe in multiculturalism.  Your words and yours to prove. 

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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #176 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:55pm
 
@ Raven

Quote:
SRAs went a bit further than that. The government would essentially tell communities  'You need a shared responsibility agreement for us to deliver normal citizenship entitlements that other Australians take for granted. We will give you a school, water, power, sewerage, if you behave in a particular way."

Raven is not denied any of these just because he may decide not to send his kids to school.


Are you seriously suggesting that the government would refuse to provide basic amenities like power, water and sewerage if communities did not sign up for an SRA? What's your proof of that?

Incidentally, do the Abos in these communities have to pay for power and water like the rest of us do?

Quote:
The hardest question in Aboriginal affairs and the answer unfortunately is there is no one solution. What works for one community may not work for another.


Understood re no one solution. What we need to do is negotiate with the Elders in each individual community.

Hang on a minute. That's an SRA!

Quote:
One community (actually it's a number of communities) that is more successful than most is Tiwi Island.

There the government has given the option for public housing tenants to buy their homes. There is also a strong football culture and they have there own league. In fact the Tiwi Island grand final is just as popular as the NTFL grand final. You actually have to book months in advance to get a ferry ticket or flight to the Islands to watch the game.


Ok. Some good news.  Smiley

Cheers,
Nicole
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #177 - May 31st, 2016 at 7:10pm
 
Aurakun will have to employ some aboriginal teachers now that the whities have been evacuated. I can see it now, future maths question- if you skull a can of VB and knock it down with a winnie red how far will the ash fly if a bong is burning close by at 260c??
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Mistress Nicole
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #178 - Jun 2nd, 2016 at 6:50pm
 
Bump for the lovely Raven  Smiley

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 6:55pm:
@ Raven

Quote:
SRAs went a bit further than that. The government would essentially tell communities  'You need a shared responsibility agreement for us to deliver normal citizenship entitlements that other Australians take for granted. We will give you a school, water, power, sewerage, if you behave in a particular way."

Raven is not denied any of these just because he may decide not to send his kids to school.


Are you seriously suggesting that the government would refuse to provide basic amenities like power, water and sewerage if communities did not sign up for an SRA? What's your proof of that?

Incidentally, do the Abos in these communities have to pay for power and water like the rest of us do?

Quote:
The hardest question in Aboriginal affairs and the answer unfortunately is there is no one solution. What works for one community may not work for another.


Understood re no one solution. What we need to do is negotiate with the Elders in each individual community.

Hang on a minute. That's an SRA!

Quote:
One community (actually it's a number of communities) that is more successful than most is Tiwi Island.

There the government has given the option for public housing tenants to buy their homes. There is also a strong football culture and they have there own league. In fact the Tiwi Island grand final is just as popular as the NTFL grand final. You actually have to book months in advance to get a ferry ticket or flight to the Islands to watch the game.


Ok. Some good news.  Smiley

Cheers,
Nicole

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Raven
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Re: Aurukun teachers evacuated.....again
Reply #179 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 3:34am
 
Mistress Nicole wrote on Jun 2nd, 2016 at 6:50pm:
Bump for the lovely Raven  Smiley

Mistress Nicole wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 6:55pm:
@ Raven

Quote:
SRAs went a bit further than that. The government would essentially tell communities  'You need a shared responsibility agreement for us to deliver normal citizenship entitlements that other Australians take for granted. We will give you a school, water, power, sewerage, if you behave in a particular way."

Raven is not denied any of these just because he may decide not to send his kids to school.


Are you seriously suggesting that the government would refuse to provide basic amenities like power, water and sewerage if communities did not sign up for an SRA? What's your proof of that?

Incidentally, do the Abos in these communities have to pay for power and water like the rest of us do?

Quote:
The hardest question in Aboriginal affairs and the answer unfortunately is there is no one solution. What works for one community may not work for another.


Understood re no one solution. What we need to do is negotiate with the Elders in each individual community.

Hang on a minute. That's an SRA!

Quote:
One community (actually it's a number of communities) that is more successful than most is Tiwi Island.

There the government has given the option for public housing tenants to buy their homes. There is also a strong football culture and they have there own league. In fact the Tiwi Island grand final is just as popular as the NTFL grand final. You actually have to book months in advance to get a ferry ticket or flight to the Islands to watch the game.


Ok. Some good news.  Smiley

Cheers,
Nicole



Aw thank you Nicole.

Despite your philosophical differences Corran always liked you. Although you did not always agree he felt that at least you were willing to listen and understand where he came from.

To address your highlighted comments humanrights.gov.au (2005) is quoted as saying

Quote:
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples do not enjoy the same standard of infrastructure necessary for health, including: safe drinking water, healthy food sources, effective sewerage systems, rubbish collection services and healthy housing.


They further state

Quote:
With the new agreement making processes, we have an unprecedented opportunity to engage and empower Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples to overcome existing health inequalities.


Nicole wrote

Quote:
Incidentally, do the Abos in these communities have to pay for power and water like the rest of us do?


This myth always seems to be perpetuated.

Yes, Aboriginal people have to pay for power and water.

No, Aboriginal people do not get free housing.

No, Aboriginal people do not get more dole than others.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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