Australian Politics Forum - don't mention Islam

mothra

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #180 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

I have spoken with and worked with many Muslim feminists. Quite eye opening.

Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran? How her husband does?

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims. I am merely noting that most of them are not at war. Most Muslims are going about their lives perfectly peacefully.

Does that not tell you something?

In the areas where there are war, there is tremendous amounts of unpalatable behaviour. The same can be said for areas in which war has previously been.

But that is a hallmark of war. The West, despite your resistance, needs to stick it's hands up for a goodly portion of that.

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Frank

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #181 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml

And now Muhammed keeps women at that 7th century Arabian level.

You are a disgrace to women, Mother.

Absolute bloody disgrace.

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mothra

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #182 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:10pm

Frank wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml

And now Muhammed keeps women at that 7th century Arabian level.

You are a disgrace to women, Mother.

Absolute bloody disgrace.

No. Mohammed does not. Repressive men do.

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freediver

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #183 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Islam teaches that a woman should get half of a man's inheritance and that her testimony in court is worth half that of a man's. Islam permits sexual exploitation of young girls, wife beating, spousal rape, sex slavery and all the depravity we see in the middle east today. Islam teaches that a man can have up to four wives and as many sex slaves as he wants - Jewish, Christian or Muslims. A Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim man. The capture of female sex slaves in war, and the shortage of women created by Islamic polygamy, is a key strategy in traditional Islamic warfare and empire building, and is being recreated by Muslims today in the name of Islam. Islam rejects the concepts of equality on the most fundamental level. Women are equal before God, but sex objects before men.

Quote:

Following the Battle of Uhud (625), in which scores of male combatants died leaving unprotected widows and children, Muhammad and the Qur'an decreed that, in order to protect the orphans of such families, men might take up to four wives.

LOL. How generous of him. Muslims can always find a way to spin the most depraved acts by Muhammed into something positive.

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Karnal

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #184 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:03pm:

if you wanted to actually find out how Muslims translate the Koran, would asking them be such an outrageous idea?

Oh, yes. Much better to pretend they think something completely different by misquoting them, telling porkies, ignoring their questions and playing dumb.

What's the difference between Islamophobia and racism, FD?

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mothra

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #185 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:14pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Islam teaches that a woman should get half of a man's inheritance and that her testimony in court is worth half that of a man's. Islam permits sexual exploitation of young girls, wife beating, spousal rape, sex slavery and all the depravity we see in the middle east today. Islam teaches that a man can have up to four wives and as many sex slaves as he wants - Jewish, Christian or Muslims. A Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim man. The capture of female sex slaves in war, and the shortage of women created by Islamic polygamy, is a key strategy in traditional Islamic warfare and empire building, and is being recreated by Muslims today in the name of Islam. Islam rejects the concepts of equality on the most fundamental level. Women are equal before God, but sex objects before men.

Again, you are speaking of repressive regimes.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36058 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #186 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:15pm I'll ask you again FD. Have you ever spoken with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she translates the Quran?
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freediver

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #187 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm

Quote:

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

I see. Are you giving up on the "I can tell what they are thinking by the way they refrain from hacking each other's heads off on a daily basis" argument?

What aspects of Islam have you discussed with them?

Quote:

Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran?

I have never met one. I wonder why?

Quote:

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims.

That is exactly how you launched yourself into this thread, but I can understand your backpedaling. Mothra are you even aware that people have gone out and asked Muslims what they think and collated the results, so that this sort of debate does not have to fall back on the idiotic "I met a nice Muslim at the pub yesterday and he did not hack my head off, therefor I know what he thinks about wife beating"

Quote:

Does that not tell you something?

It tells me that war is not sustainable. Only an idiot would attempt to conclude anything about people's beliefs from this.

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mothra

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #188 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:23pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm:

Quote:

Again FD, i have spoken with many Muslims. They translate the Quran peacefully.

I see. Are you giving up on the "I can tell what they are thinking by the way they refrain from hacking each other's heads off on a daily basis" argument?

What aspects of Islam have you discussed with them?

Quote:

Tell me FD, have you ever had an equal conversation with a Muslim feminist and asked her how she interprets the Quran?

I have never met one. I wonder why?

Quote:

I am not, despite your sensationalist claim, "speaking" for all of the world's Muslims.

That is exactly how you launched yourself into this thread, but I can understand your backpedaling. Mothra are you even aware that people have gone out and asked Muslims what they think and collated the results, so that this sort of debate does not have to fall back on the idiotic "I met a nice Muslim at the pub yesterday and he did not hack my head off, therefor I know what he thinks about wife beating"

Quote:

Does that not tell you something?

It tells me that war is not sustainable. Only an idiot would attempt to conclude anything about people's beliefs from this.

You do build a great many straw men around you FD. To what end, i wonder?

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

What do you think it means?

And i've met loads of feminist Muslims. I wonder why you haven't? Don't mix in those sort of circles?

As for your "collated data", did you find the outcomes you were looking for on "thereligionofpeace"?

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freediver

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #189 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:24pm

Mothra, when you speak on behalf of the world's Muslims and tell us all how they "translate" the Koran, are you doing so from a position of complete and utter ignorance of how the world's Muslims actually translate the Koran?

The OIC has been attempting to use the UN to re-criminalise blasphemy. Would you regard this as evidence that they "translate" the Koran peacefully? Does this reassure you?

Why are you able to tell what the world's Muslims are thinking by the way they refrain from daily violence, but find convenient excuses for the shitholes they turn every single one of their countries into?

mothra wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:13pm:

Quote:

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God.

Islam teaches that a woman should get half of a man's inheritance and that her testimony in court is worth half that of a man's. Islam permits sexual exploitation of young girls, wife beating, spousal rape, sex slavery and all the depravity we see in the middle east today. Islam teaches that a man can have up to four wives and as many sex slaves as he wants - Jewish, Christian or Muslims. A Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim man. The capture of female sex slaves in war, and the shortage of women created by Islamic polygamy, is a key strategy in traditional Islamic warfare and empire building, and is being recreated by Muslims today in the name of Islam. Islam rejects the concepts of equality on the most fundamental level. Women are equal before God, but sex objects before men.

Again, you are speaking of repressive regimes.

No, I am speaking of the example set by Muhammed for Muslims to follow for all eternity. Are you saying that Muhammed has nothing to do with Islam? Was his Islamic state just another 'repressive' regime that twisted Islam for political purposes?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 143854 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #190 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm: I have never met one. I wonder why? You're an Islamophobe, and you avoid talking to Muslims at all costs?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36058 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #191 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD. Was i not clear?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36058 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #192 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm Here FD. Get yourself an education: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/prophet-muhammad-women/
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98389	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #193 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:25pm: freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:19pm: I have never met one. I wonder why? You're an Islamophobe, and you avoid talking to Muslims at all costs? That, and possibly something else. FD doesn't want to talk about it.
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freediver

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Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #194 - Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:27pm

Quote:

I think the fact that most of the world's Muslim's live in peace indicates with strong likelihood that they translate the Quran peacefully.

Isn't it nice that they have you to tell them what they think. Again, do you think asking them what they think is too ourageous?

Quote:

As for your "collated data", did you find the outcomes you were looking for on "thereligionofpeace"?

The Pew society. I have not seen anyone here seriously challenge the results. Gandalf does attempt to argue that they do not really mean what they say they mean, but has not disputed what they say they mean.

Quote:

I'm saying your views on Mohammed are wrong FD.
Was i not clear?

Well, I am glad we got to the bottom of that one.

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