Australian Politics Forum - Investment & negative interest rates

bogarde73

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Investment & negative interest rates
Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40am

This is the time governments should be borrowing to invest in future productivity and new industries.
There is good debt and bad debt in the public sector. Bad debt is where countries borrow to fund welfare & so on - think Greece.
Good debt is where they borrow to fund infrastructure and such like: investment capacity for the future.

No better time than now. Many central banks are lending at negative interest rates - they pay someone to take the money. That's not to say our govt could negotiate a long term loan on that basis but they could certainly borrow at negligible cost.
So draw up your list of what we need:
- modernised rail system
- better roads
- investment in social capital: hospitals, schools etc
- investment in public & private technology R & D,
including biotech & pharmaceutical
- investment in robotics technology: it's coming whether we like it or not

Endless possibilities to establish a base for new industries and employment.
Why isn't it happening?
Hawke established a Commission for the Future (?) with I think Barry Jones at the helm to look at this kind of thing 25 years or so ago. Where did that go?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77073 Gender:	Re: Investment & negative interest rates Reply #1 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:43am - finish the NBN properly - high speed rail from Melbourne through Canberra, Sydney and all the way to Brisbane - invest in future technologies be they robotics, renewables, medicine etc - a fresh water pipeline that brings water from the north to the south.
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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Investment & negative interest rates Reply #2 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am Change policy to encourage housing. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/apr/03/housing-affordability-two-... If that's 2 thirds, then that would include lib supporters... wonder why they think that with their lib party leaders think otherwise.
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Investment & negative interest rates Reply #3 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:11am Is this an admission that the Austerity measures and the narrative about it being a spending problem from this crew of retards is not the solution , and it took you 3 years to work this out
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bogarde73

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #4 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:31am

No it's not an admission about anything.
I'll spell it out slowly because I know you struggle.
"Spending problem" relates to the annual budget and, together with "revenue problem" talks to the issues associated with a relevant budget balance. Reining in expenditure where appropriate on middle class welfare, which I bet would hurt you, and correcting deficiencies in the taxation side like global tax avoidance and superannuation concessions.

What I was talking about in this thread relates to the capital works or loans programs, which as I suggested, the govt - all govts - should be pursuing especially in this climate of cheap money.

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hawil

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #5 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 12:06pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40am:

This is the time governments should be borrowing to invest in future productivity and new industries.
There is good debt and bad debt in the public sector. Bad debt is where countries borrow to fund welfare & so on - think Greece.
Good debt is where they borrow to fund infrastructure and such like: investment capacity for the future.

No better time than now. Many central banks are lending at negative interest rates - they pay someone to take the money. That's not to say our govt could negotiate a long term loan on that basis but they could certainly borrow at negligible cost.
So draw up your list of what we need:
- modernised rail system
- better roads
- investment in social capital: hospitals, schools etc
- investment in public & private technology R & D,
including biotech & pharmaceutical
- investment in robotics technology: it's coming whether we like it or not

Endless possibilities to establish a base for new industries and employment.
Why isn't it happening?
Hawke established a Commission for the Future (?) with I think Barry Jones at the helm to look at this kind of thing 25 years or so ago. Where did that go?

The politicians are not interested in the well-being of Australia but are just looking after their own interest. As far as Railways are concerned, Australia would have the worst rail-system among developed countries, yet it would be much more efficient and environment friendly to maximize the use of rail for all heavy transport, yet over the years, bulk cargo like wheat and super has been taken over by road transport.
As far as borrowing is concerned, the trillions in Australian super should be utilized more in this country, rather than going overseas.

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bogarde73

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #6 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 1:19pm

I was actually in the NSW Treasury working on research in relation to road transport tax at the time the industry was putting the railways out of business.
Boy was there a snow job and string pulling but that was oh so long ago.
You're absolutely right. Rail is one of our futures and the irony is we had a great rail system once and it could have been upgraded.

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #7 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:05pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 1:19pm:

I was actually in the NSW Treasury working on research in relation to road transport tax at the time the industry was putting the railways out of business.
Boy was there a snow job and string pulling but that was oh so long ago.
You're absolutely right. Rail is one of our futures and the irony is we had a great rail system once and it could have been upgraded.

Yup - been taking flak for years over advocating a restoration of the railways.... upgrading for efficient dispersal at junction points etc. Nowadays the Guv will hire a Chindian firm to do a shonky job, and charge us full price times two for fares and freight so as to ensure a profit for 'private' railway.....

In other words - no point restoring the rail until such time as the privatisation insanity is gone, dead, cremated and buried forever and the simple sense prevails that if a private consortium can make a profit but raise costs extravagantly, a government run business can make a profit for the people without robbing them blind first.

It's called 'providing a service'..... (SERVICE, Igor - not Circus.. damn your eyes!)....

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Bam

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #8 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:20pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40am:

This is the time governments should be borrowing to invest in future productivity and new industries.
There is good debt and bad debt in the public sector. Bad debt is where countries borrow to fund welfare & so on - think Greece.
Good debt is where they borrow to fund infrastructure and such like: investment capacity for the future.

No better time than now. Many central banks are lending at negative interest rates - they pay someone to take the money. That's not to say our govt could negotiate a long term loan on that basis but they could certainly borrow at negligible cost.
So draw up your list of what we need:
- modernised rail system
- better roads
- investment in social capital: hospitals, schools etc
- investment in public & private technology R & D,
including biotech & pharmaceutical
- investment in robotics technology: it's coming whether we like it or not

Some more things to add to this list:

The real FTTH NBN. This is an investment with a demonstrable ROI. Why are we mucking around with half-arsed solutions that will be obsolete before they are finished and need to be replaced within 10 years? Our competitors in other countries are racing ahead with high-speed communications. We're lagging in 60th place for average internet speeds and are falling further behind.

High speed rail connecting Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane. We've been talking about building this since 1984. It's time we got on with building it. Melbourne to Sydney by high speed rail in 5 hours? Yes, please.

More investment in public housing. Consider sharing it with private investment in a PPP model.

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:40am:

Endless possibilities to establish a base for new industries and employment.
Why isn't it happening?

We have a Federal government that doesn't seem to understand the distinction between good debt and bad debt. Someone really needs to sit down and explain Keynesian economics to them.

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GordyL

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #9 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:21pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:43am:

- finish the NBN properly
- high speed rail from Melbourne through Canberra, Sydney and all the way to Brisbane
- invest in future technologies be they robotics, renewables, medicine etc
- a fresh water pipeline that brings water from the north to the south.

If you had that in order of priority, I'd drop the railway to the bottom of the list but the rest is about right.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Investment & negative interest rates Reply #10 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:22pm hawil wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 12:06pm: As far as borrowing is concerned, the trillions in Australian super should be utilized more in this country, rather than going overseas. QFT
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GordyL

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #11 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:35pm

My biggest gripe is internet speed.

I can live with my dl speed but my upload speeds are a complete fkucgin joke. I upload a gig or 2 most days.

If I walked about 4 streets away from my house using an English Longbow with the wind behind me, I could land an arrow on the house of the former Minister for Communications and I can't get anything better than ADSL.

What a farce.

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and the monkeys all say BOO!

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Its time

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #12 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:56pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:35pm:

My biggest gripe is internet speed.

I can live with my dl speed but my upload speeds are a complete fkucgin joke. I upload a gig or 2 most days.

If I walked about 4 streets away from my house using an English Longbow with the wind behind me, I could land an arrow on the house of the former Minister for Communications and I can't get anything better than ADSL.

What a farce.

That before or after libtards version of broadband?

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GordyL

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #13 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:00pm

Its time wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:56pm:

GordyL wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:35pm:

My biggest gripe is internet speed.

I can live with my dl speed but my upload speeds are a complete fkucgin joke. I upload a gig or 2 most days.

If I walked about 4 streets away from my house using an English Longbow with the wind behind me, I could land an arrow on the house of the former Minister for Communications and I can't get anything better than ADSL.

What a farce.

That before or after libtards version of broadband?

The nbn™ network rollout has not started in your area. Keep checking the website for more information.

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On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!

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longweekend58

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Re: Investment & negative interest rates
Reply #14 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:23pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:43am:

- finish the NBN properly NO POSITIVE UPSIDE
- high speed rail from Melbourne through Canberra, Sydney and all the way to Brisbane SO EXPENSIVE THAT business class airfare will be half the proce
- invest in future technologies be they robotics, renewables, medicine etc MEANINGLESS STATEMENT
- a fresh water pipeline that brings water from the north to the south. BEEN LOOKED A BY ACTUAL experts and is not feasible. desal is cheaper.

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