Australian Politics Forum - Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #30 - Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:20pm Its time wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:13pm: Lips Sealed zip it rtard what he said!
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #31 - Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:22pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:09pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 9:27am:

stunspore wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:23am:

Outside the market (corrupt) compulsory penalty rates are a cause of unemployment.

TAS has too much unemployment due to Leftist destruction of its more profitable industries already

Since penalty rates from part of the market it is not outside the market.

Any product that has its price set artificially is outside the market Stunpy....

Your argument should really be about whether, that, is a good or a bad thing.

but it's not set ... you can always pay more if you like

Exactly.

Another fact the Libtards don't understand.

If you think a worker deserves more, then pay them as much as you like.

There's no law that prevents good employees from being paid more than other employees doing the exact same job.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #32 - Mar 29^th, 2016 at 10:15pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 11:25am:

So this is not a Penalty Rates Campaign - it's a campaign against CUTTING existing rates.....

Maybe the workers should move to a campaign for double time every hour of every day and then negotiate on a log of claims....... come to some middle ground...... after all, that's what those pushing for chops of penalty rates are doing.. go for the jugular and see if they'll negotiate a lesser loss.....

Just 'cause it's a banana, doesn't mean it's yellow...

I think it was in SA .. but the story I heard was that a few years ago employers decided that rather than pay penalty rates, they would pay a higher hourly rate across the whole week and the rate then remained the same regardless of day or time (all legal, provided their is no overall loss to employees) .... a few months later the EMPLOYERS cried it didn't achieved their desired goal and went back to penalty rates Cheesy

Yes - no doubt they found that more work was done on ordinary days anyway and could be fitted in, so they were actually losing by signing up to WorkChoices.... I've long advocated a return to full Award conditions, which gives a guarantee to all sides of the question. A manager/owner can decide not to work Sundays if it costs too much.... as an example.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Labor voter

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #33 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:38am

aquascoot wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 11:57am:

A business owner has money in the bank.

He can use this money to buy things which he needs.

He might need a motor vehicle.

he goes and negotiates the best price he can with the local auto yard.
if its a "valuable" vehicle, he pays more.

he might need computers and phones.
These, he also buys according to market conditions in what he and the seller agree is a fair price.

None of this needs to involve government.
Its is buyers and sellers.
If he doesnt offer enough money, the seller is under no obligation to sell.

The employee is a seller of labor.

If he is very valuable, like a BMW, he will fetch a fine price.
If he has failed to make himself valuable, if he blows smoke, has a dodgy clutch and bald tyres, he will fetch a lesser price.

Either way, it is the a trade of money for labor. it is something that has been going on since time began.
Both sides need to agree on a price for this exchange and the government does not need to be involved.

The dodgy car with the bad paint and rust cant really appeal to the government. what the dodgy car should do to fetch a good price is to look after its tryes, work hard on improving its performance, wash itself regularly to prevent rust , always be relaible, never complain when asked to tow a heavy load. In this way the purchaser will say...this car is valuable. i will retain it and i wont be replacing it as it serves my purpose well

I knew it would happen sooner or later

aquascoot has left the 1800s behind. He has gone from horses to cars.

What type of car are you driving aquascoot a T Model Ford? But make sure it is a black one won't you.

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Opinions are like arseholes everyone got one.

It doesn't mean that your opinion or my opinion is right

See my post in the welcome thread reply #575 and you will know what I am like

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #34 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:47am The lib supporters need to get out of ivory towers (or not so politely, out of someone's behind) and get into the real world.
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aquascoot

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #35 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 9:51am

Labor voter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:38am:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 11:57am:

A business owner has money in the bank.

He can use this money to buy things which he needs.

He might need a motor vehicle.

he goes and negotiates the best price he can with the local auto yard.
if its a "valuable" vehicle, he pays more.

he might need computers and phones.
These, he also buys according to market conditions in what he and the seller agree is a fair price.

None of this needs to involve government.
Its is buyers and sellers.
If he doesnt offer enough money, the seller is under no obligation to sell.

The employee is a seller of labor.

If he is very valuable, like a BMW, he will fetch a fine price.
If he has failed to make himself valuable, if he blows smoke, has a dodgy clutch and bald tyres, he will fetch a lesser price.

Either way, it is the a trade of money for labor. it is something that has been going on since time began.
Both sides need to agree on a price for this exchange and the government does not need to be involved.

The dodgy car with the bad paint and rust cant really appeal to the government. what the dodgy car should do to fetch a good price is to look after its tryes, work hard on improving its performance, wash itself regularly to prevent rust , always be relaible, never complain when asked to tow a heavy load. In this way the purchaser will say...this car is valuable. i will retain it and i wont be replacing it as it serves my purpose well

I knew it would happen sooner or later

aquascoot has left the 1800s behind. He has gone from horses to cars.

What type of car are you driving aquascoot a T Model Ford? But make sure it is a black one won't you.

certain principles stand the test of time .
the principle that someone pays someone else to perform work at a price they both agree on......this would have been one of the first principles of modern commerce. why would we change that??
why would government need to interefere with that??

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Sir Crook Ex Member	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #36 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:02am They wonder why people join unions. Go figure.
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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 37419 Gender:	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #37 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:22am Quote: They wonder why people join unions. Go figure. people join unions to try and get more money by DEMANDING more money. the other way to get more money is to become more valuable and climb the economic ladder. I'm telling you, its quicker to climb
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 150535 Gender:	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #38 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 12:32pm aquascoot wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:22am: Quote: They wonder why people join unions. Go figure. people join unions to try and get more money by DEMANDING more money. the other way to get more money is to become more valuable and climb the economic ladder. I'm telling you, its quicker to climb
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stunspore

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #39 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 1:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Quote:

They wonder why people join unions. Go figure. Cheesy

people join unions to try and get more money by DEMANDING more money.

the other way to get more money is to become more valuable and climb the economic ladder.

I'm telling you, its quicker to climb Wink

More nonsense. No need to explain. This post ofc is for the non-aqua's who are rational and not filled with lib propaganda.

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aquascoot

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #40 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 1:25pm

stunspore wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 1:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Quote:

They wonder why people join unions. Go figure. Cheesy

people join unions to try and get more money by DEMANDING more money.

the other way to get more money is to become more valuable and climb the economic ladder.

I'm telling you, its quicker to climb Wink

More nonsense. No need to explain. This post ofc is for the non-aqua's who are rational and not filled with lib propaganda.

If we dig a little deeper , what is going on here can be simply explained by "ego-defense" as most things can be.

If you arent doing well in life, if you arent going up in life, you have 2 choices.

1 blame the greedy bosses, the capitalists, the gubment, the 'system"

or

2 admit you are messing up, admit you havent been working to increase your skills, admit that others are getting ahead because they work harder then you, are basicly "better' then you.

choice one allows you to preserve your ego intact and also remain in your comfort zone (lazy and safe).

choice two results in a hit to your ego, feeling bad about yourself and then having to push outside your comfort zone and work much harder.

It is hardly surprising that most people are heavily focused on choice 1. its low consciousness thinking which is always the easy route, the wrong route, the route to nowhere . It will all change for people when they can honestly reflect on their choices and not enter the low conscious ego preservation reactive state.

Joining a union is a consolation prize for mediocre beta-males

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61265 Here Gender:	Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign Reply #41 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 8:56pm Quote: Unions Tasmania thanks Easter holiday workers in penalty rate campaign But the Federal Government called the campaign misguided, and said there were no plans to change penalty rates. Whoever from the federal government said that probably sleeps in a bed like this.
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Dnarever

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #42 - Mar 30^th, 2016 at 8:58pm

Swagman wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 9:27am:

stunspore wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 7:23am:

Outside the market (corrupt) compulsory penalty rates are a cause of unemployment.

TAS has too much unemployment due to Leftist destruction of its more profitable industries already

Since penalty rates from part of the market it is not outside the market.

Any product that has its price set artificially is outside the market Stunpy....

Your argument should really be about whether, that, is a good or a bad thing.

That would mean that there is no market as it sets no price at all.

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stunspore

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Re: Unions Tasmania In Penalty Rate Campaign
Reply #43 - Mar 31^st, 2016 at 4:23am

aquascoot wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 1:25pm:

stunspore wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 1:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

Quote:

They wonder why people join unions. Go figure. Cheesy

people join unions to try and get more money by DEMANDING more money.

the other way to get more money is to become more valuable and climb the economic ladder.

I'm telling you, its quicker to climb Wink

More nonsense. No need to explain. This post ofc is for the non-aqua's who are rational and not filled with lib propaganda.

If we dig a little deeper , what is going on here can be simply explained by "ego-defense" as most things can be.

If you arent doing well in life, if you arent going up in life, you have 2 choices.

1 blame the greedy bosses, the capitalists, the gubment, the 'system"

or

2 admit you are messing up, admit you havent been working to increase your skills, admit that others are getting ahead because they work harder then you, are basicly "better' then you.

choice one allows you to preserve your ego intact and also remain in your comfort zone (lazy and safe).

choice two results in a hit to your ego, feeling bad about yourself and then having to push outside your comfort zone and work much harder.

It is hardly surprising that most people are heavily focused on choice 1. its low consciousness thinking which is always the easy route, the wrong route, the route to nowhere . It will all change for people when they can honestly reflect on their choices and not enter the low conscious ego preservation reactive state.

Joining a union is a consolation prize for mediocre beta-males

Nonsense.

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