Australian Politics Forum - Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics

lee

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #15 - Mar 27^th, 2016 at 5:21pm

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

There is actually a lot of evidence that increasing CO2 has caused significant global warming in the past.

What were the catastrophic consequences that were caused by the approximate double the amount of CO2 that we have at present? In what way was it runaway warming?

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

as methane from the decomposition of sedimentary methane hydrates, has been proposed to explain a delta13C anomaly associated

As such it is settled science? What was the tipping point? What remediation was put into effect to return CO2 to "normal"?

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Ajax

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #16 - Mar 27^th, 2016 at 5:35pm

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 11:26am:

Of course there has been no evidence of increasing CO2 leading to runaway global warming ever.

Not sure what you are trying to define as "runaway" global warming - but that is generally complete bollocks. There is actually a lot of evidence that increasing CO2 has caused significant global warming in the past.

During the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), ∼56 Mya, thousands of petagrams of carbon were released into the ocean-atmosphere system with attendant changes in the carbon cycle, climate, ocean chemistry, and marine and continental ecosystems. The period of carbon release is thought to have lasted <20 ka, the duration of the whole event was ∼200 ka, and the global temperature increase was 5–8◦C

The Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum: A Perturbation of Carbon Cycle, Climate, and Biosphere with Implications for the Future
https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/16827/paleo_McInerney_Wing_2011...

The injection into the atmosphere of approx,200–2,000 gigatons of carbon, as methane from the decomposition of sedimentary methane hydrates, has been proposed to explain a delta13C anomaly associated with high-latitude warming1 and changes in marine and terrestrial biota near the Palaeocene–Eocene boundary, about 55 million years ago.
Carbon cycling and chronology of climate warming during the Palaeocene/Eocene transition
www.nature.com/nature/journal/v401/n6755/abs/401775a0.html

In the last 11,000 years we have had nine instances of global warming as the graph below shows.

Yet CO2 looks like it has nothing to do with this warming on ever occasion.

Now please provide evidence that more CO2 increases temperature here on Earth.

In the papers above what was our sun doing during these periods....???

What about cosmic rays reaching the Earth during that period.....???

The only way more natural CO2 gets released into the atmosphere is if the Earth warms up.

Quote:

Showing from 200 to 11000 years ago, the subsequent graph is based on ice core data, readily visible in files hosted on the servers of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):GISP 2 and EPICA Dome C

Graph-1

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« Last Edit: Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:11pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics Reply #17 - Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:14pm why did batman show a graph where the Y-axis for CO2 concentration is restricted to the 260 - 285 ppm range?
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Ajax

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #18 - Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:58pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

why did batman show a graph where the Y-axis for CO2 concentration is restricted to the 260 - 285 ppm range?

https://ikttvs.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/batman-crying.gif

That's all you got to say.

We've have had nine global warming episodes in the last 11000 years which had nothing to do with CO2 as the graph shows...!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #19 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 10:49am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

why did batman show a graph where the Y-axis for CO2 concentration is restricted to the 260 - 285 ppm range?

Because he is using an ice core sample taken from a single point in Greenland and comparing it to a CO2 ice core sample taken in Antarctica.
The ice core samples don't show any data for the last couple of hundred years presumably because they have melted.

This is cherry picking of data at it's most dishonest.
the full explanation of why these graphs don't prove anything can be read here

https://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=670

Quote:

Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2016 at 10:55am by The_Barnacle »

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lee

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #20 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:40am

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

The ice core samples don't show any data for the last couple of hundred years presumably because they have melted.

Oh no. the increasing ice mass of Antarctica is melting the last 200 years of data? Cheesy

The Ice core data from Greenland because the melting ice still has the lost WW11 planes about 260 feet under the ice. Grin

And you quote skeptical science. Did they tell you that crud, or did you come up with it on your own?

Try googling Firn and CO2 and you may have an answer. Why does Rob Honeycutt not know this?

edit: I may have found the answer to my last question.

"Rob's claim to fame is being the founder of the popular pack and bag company Timbuk2. He is a guru of mass customization and, through the application of Toyota manufacturing methods, created a unique and enduring brand in the outdoor products industry."

https://www.skepticalscience.com/team.php

Sceptical; but no scientist.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:47am by lee »

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics Reply #21 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:54am Interesting that you didn't comment on the actually argument. So Lee would you agree with this statement? Quote: Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.
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lee

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #22 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 12:16pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:54am:

Interesting that you didn't comment on the actually argument.

So Lee would you agree with this statement?

Quote:

Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.

Where is the quote that a single ice core is a proxy for global temperature? Attribution please.

Found it SKS. Now what about multiple ice core proxies? or just general multiple proxies.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:20pm by lee »

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Ajax

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #23 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:30pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 10:49am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

why did batman show a graph where the Y-axis for CO2 concentration is restricted to the 260 - 285 ppm range?

Because he is using an ice core sample taken from a single point in Greenland and comparing it to a CO2 ice core sample taken in Antarctica.
The ice core samples don't show any data for the last couple of hundred years presumably because they have melted.

This is cherry picking of data at it's most dishonest.
the full explanation of why these graphs don't prove anything can be read here

https://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=670

Quote:

Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.

What are you saying that somehow in the northern hemisphere there would be some great big difference between the atmospheric CO2 in the northern and southern hemisphere.

You got jacksh!t haven't you otherwise you would have some evidence to say what's wrong with what i've shown.

Why don't you pull out a CO2 atmospheric graph in the northern hemisphere for comparison.

It is because they a just about the same....????

There may be a little difference not denying that, but nothing that would make my statement false or otherwise not believable.

Antarctica and Greenland two of the most reliable sources for ice core data.

You sir are a liar who peddles snake oil, like that hairy arsed chimp.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #24 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:41pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:54am:

Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.

But using 2 ice core proxies from different hemispheres is not using a single ice core.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #25 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:45pm

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

There is actually a lot of evidence that increasing CO2 has caused significant global warming in the past.

What were the catastrophic consequences that were caused by the approximate double the amount of CO2 that we have at present? In what way was it runaway warming?

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

as methane from the decomposition of sedimentary methane hydrates, has been proposed to explain a delta13C anomaly associated

As such it is settled science? What was the tipping point? What remediation was put into effect to return CO2 to "normal"?

SAY WHAAAAAAAAAAAA BROZ???? Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #26 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:51pm

Ajax wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

why did batman show a graph where the Y-axis for CO2 concentration is restricted to the 260 - 285 ppm range?

https://ikttvs.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/batman-crying.gif

That's all you got to say.

We've have had nine global warming episodes in the last 11000 years which had nothing to do with CO2 as the graph shows...!

Co2 is released by warming,... Leading to a feedback mechanism that releases more co2!

Another billion page circle jerk to forget the global copper Internet joke: bye bye sideshow mal!

Cheesy

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #27 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:54pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

lee wrote on Mar 25^th, 2016 at 7:24pm:

'Paleoclimate data show that climate sensitivity is ~3 deg-C for doubled CO2, including only fast feedback processes. Equilibrium sensitivity, including slower surface albedo feedbacks, is ~6 deg-C for doubled CO2 for the range of climate states between glacial conditions and ice-free Antarctica. Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 450 +/- 100 ppm, a level that will be exceeded within decades, barring prompt policy changes.'

So decreasing CO2 was the cause of glaciation and you want to go back to that?

http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.1126

They are talking about glaciation of Antarctica. And yes we want to preserve Antarctica's glaciers or we will be seeing a rise in sea levels.

Thanks for posting a link confirming the relationship between global temperature and CO2. I'm sure Ajax appreciated it too.

Lees a friggin peanut going to the grave with copper Internet as his legacy!

Well done lee: 😂

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #28 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 4:58pm

lee wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 11:26am:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

They are talking about glaciation of Antarctica. And yes we want to preserve Antarctica's glaciers or we will be seeing a rise in sea levels.

Yes, Did you understand the thing about "Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 450 +/- 100 ppm "? CO2 dropping resulted in the glaciation.

You mean decreasing CO2 led to an Ice Age? Of course there has been no evidence of increasing CO2 leading to runaway global warming ever.

Well done mate: f$$$$n well done mate ya spasticated too much friggin' teethed whore for the foreign investor!

Is your second name Isis by any chance you planet accountant freak Grin

???

We all know Cheesy

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Boiled Frogs use Flawed Metrics
Reply #29 - Mar 29^th, 2016 at 10:35am

lee wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 1:41pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 11:54am:

Using a single ice core record as a proxy for global temperature is a little like reading the thermometer on your back porch and claiming you know the global average temperature.

But using 2 ice core proxies from different hemispheres is not using a single ice core.

Wrong
They are using one for temperature from a single location in Greenland.

So do you agree that using a proxy from a single location to represent global temperature is invalid or are you just going to continue to avoid answering the question. A simple yes or no will suffice

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