Australian Politics Forum - But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!

GordyL

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #150 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

Didn't you just pooh pooh my suggestion that their remorse was last minute and for sentencing concessions?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #151 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:10pm

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

Didn't you just pooh pooh my suggestion that their remorse was last minute and for sentencing concessions?

I have maintained that I'm going with the judge's impartial comments.

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #152 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #153 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #154 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #155 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

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GordyL

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #156 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:40pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

And that's the issue I have.
If they get home detention the take home message for others in the community is there is no punishment for FGM.
In their mind no punishment equates to nothing wrong with doing it.

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #157 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

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Mr Hammer

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #158 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:52pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

Oh they probably didn't know it was against the law!!! Cry

.......

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #159 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:54pm

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:40pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

And that's the issue I have.
If they get home detention the take home message for others in the community is there is no punishment for FGM.
In their mind no punishment equates to nothing wrong with doing it.

And I think the fact that it's a custodial sentence is the important point. If you raise the issue with an imam or community leader, they'll now say it's a jailable offence.

I don't know much about home detention, but I imagine all sorts of people are assessed for this. It's not a reflection of the sentence, but which prisoners are suitable.

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GordyL

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #160 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:56pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

Oh they probably didn't know it was against the law!!! Cry

.......

And if they're not sent to jail (not HD) others will view their lack of incarceration as the act not being illegal.

The kind of people who would consider FGM are probably not well equipped to see the nuance between HD and a custodial sentence.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #161 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:59pm

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:56pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

Oh they probably didn't know it was against the law!!! Cry

.......

And if they're not sent to jail (not HD) others will view their lack of incarceration as the act not being illegal.

The kind of people who would consider FGM are probably not well equipped to see the nuance between HD and a custodial sentence.

Most Muslims think the only law is Allah's law.

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #162 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:59pm

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:56pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

Oh they probably didn't know it was against the law!!! Cry

.......

And if they're not sent to jail (not HD) others will view their lack of incarceration as the act not being illegal.

The kind of people who would consider FGM are probably not well equipped to see the nuance between HD and a custodial sentence.

People who consider FGM don't do it alone. There's the need for a genital mutilator, for a start. There are the community members who refer you to the genital mutilator.

At every stage, the risks and penalties would be discussed.

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Karnal

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #163 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 3:00pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:59pm:

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:56pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

Didn't know it was against the law???? Grin

Why would they do it if they thought they'd be sent to jail for a year? There's no Muslim law about female circumcision, it's a cultural practice in African/Middle Eastern cultures.

They only got busted because one of the girls got an infection and a doctor reported it. They never thought anybody would find out princess. Stop apologising.

You seem to think any context or discussion of motives is an apology, Homo. Alas, these are the sorts of things they discuss in courts.

You're still learning the ropes as a judge, no?

Oh they probably didn't know it was against the law!!! Cry

.......

And if they're not sent to jail (not HD) others will view their lack of incarceration as the act not being illegal.

The kind of people who would consider FGM are probably not well equipped to see the nuance between HD and a custodial sentence.

Most Muslims think the only law is Allah's law.

FGM is not Allah's law, dear.

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GordyL

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Re: But OF COURSE they 'escape' jail, you fools!
Reply #164 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 3:00pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:54pm:

GordyL wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:40pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I can't see how they'd be remorseful. The women were circumcised themselves and see it as part of their culture. They see it as just something you do.

They'd be remorseful that they were caught.

It sounds like they didn't even know it's against the law.

A custodial sentence should be enough to wake people up in communities that practice female genital mutilation. We don't tolerate it here.

And that's the issue I have.
If they get home detention the take home message for others in the community is there is no punishment for FGM.
In their mind no punishment equates to nothing wrong with doing it.

And I think the fact that it's a custodial sentence is the important point. If you raise the issue with an imam or community leader, they'll now say it's a jailable offence.

I don't know much about home detention, but I imagine all sorts of people are assessed for this. It's not a reflection of the sentence, but which prisoners are suitable.

I have some knowledge of the perception of how different kinds of sentencing is perceived in a particular ethnic community, gained from a friend who is a court appointed interpreter and another who is a PA for a drug lawyer.

Suspended sentence = I got away with it, I can set up my next hydro house tomorrow.

Home detention = bummer, I can't leave home to set up my next hydro house but at lease I can be at home with the family.

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