Australian Politics Forum - Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid

greggerypeccary

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #75 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:51pm

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

For some businesses the price of labour increased by penalty rates on Sunday is too high, so their demand for labour drops on Sundays. That leads to unemployment.

Complete and utter bullshit.

Penalty rates aren't something new (why don't any of you rightards understand this simple fact?).

There have been no increases to the Sunday penalty rate.

The employer knew exactly what the rates were when they started the business.

Thus, they knew exactly how many people they were going to employ and what hours they were going to operate.

Stop spreading this nonsense, Timbo. It makes you look very silly.

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Swagman

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #76 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 2:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:51pm:

Penalty rates aren't something new (why don't any of you rightards understand this simple fact?)

I don't recall saying they were new?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:51pm:

The employer knew exactly what the rates were when they started the business Thus, they knew exactly how many people they were going to employ and what hours they were going to operate

So what? Business activity fluctuates, markets fluctuate, prices fluctuate. That's the point.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid Reply #77 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 2:40pm Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 2:39pm: So what? Business activity fluctuates, markets fluctuate, prices fluctuate. That's the point. so you finally agree, they have no influence on the number of staff someone needs.
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Swagman

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #78 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 2:42pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Keep smoking your grass clippings Jonathon.....I expect up your way they have minced canetoad in them, so your strange ravings are slightly mitigated.... Cheesy

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #79 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:01pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Exactly.

The person who determines if penalty rates are paid or not, is the employer.

Nobody else.

If they choose to operate outside of normal business hours, then they will need to pay penalty rates (to compensate the employees for working unsocial hours).

However, the decision to open on Sundays or Public Holidays is theirs, and theirs alone. The employee can't make that decision.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150572 Gender:	Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid Reply #80 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:03pm Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 2:39pm: Business activity fluctuates, markets fluctuate, prices fluctuate. And the employers know what the penalty rates are. If they think they're too high, don't extend trading to Sundays and Public Holidays. Simple, and nobody loses their job.
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longweekend58

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #81 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:58pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 9:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 7:54am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 4:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 12:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 10:18am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 8:24am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 6:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 5:33pm:

it is an increase in wage. that is not a safety net which would be a minimum weekly wage for example. it is just an increase in wage.

Incorrect.

Nobody is asking for an increase.

it is a time-based increase on a standard wage, pedantic Public Servant.

Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

Why do you support taking money away from some of the lowest paid workers in the country?

Answer that question, if you have the balls.

you seem to be a pedant but only on your own arguments. for all others you are OBTUSE. penalty rates are - and always be - a time-based increase to a standard wage.

Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

I am not even entering the debate on right/wrong. I am simply correcting your terminology in that penalty rates are an INCREASE on a base wage. This is of course completely true and rather obvious but being unable to separate ideology from statments of fact, it confuses you.

BTW, an 'increase' is an increase regardless of amount.

Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

a 'penalty rate' is BY DEFINITION an increase over a base wage. You can rabbit on pedanticaly when it suits you, but when presented with the same, you turn to water.

Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

goof for you. and not even closely related to by statement.

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longweekend58

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #82 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Exactly.

The person who determines if penalty rates are paid or not, is the employer.

Nobody else.

If they choose to operate outside of normal business hours, then they will need to pay penalty rates (to compensate the employees for working unsocial hours).

However, the decision to open on Sundays or Public Holidays is theirs, and theirs alone. The employee can't make that decision.

the employee CHOOSES???? obviously you've never been in business or the like. employees do not CHOOSE to work a particular time. their employer does

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John Smith

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #83 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 5:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Exactly.

The person who determines if penalty rates are paid or not, is the employer.

Nobody else.

If they choose to operate outside of normal business hours, then they will need to pay penalty rates (to compensate the employees for working unsocial hours).

However, the decision to open on Sundays or Public Holidays is theirs, and theirs alone. The employee can't make that decision.

the employee CHOOSES???? obviously you've never been in business or the like. employees do not CHOOSE to work a particular time. their employer does

I think I'm starting to see your problem ... you can't far ken read English can you? Where does he say the employee chooses?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #84 - Mar 24^th, 2016 at 10:32am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Exactly.

The person who determines if penalty rates are paid or not, is the employer.

Nobody else.

If they choose to operate outside of normal business hours, then they will need to pay penalty rates (to compensate the employees for working unsocial hours).

However, the decision to open on Sundays or Public Holidays is theirs, and theirs alone. The employee can't make that decision.

the employee CHOOSES???? obviously you've never been in business or the like. employees do not CHOOSE to work a particular time. their employer does

That's exactly what I said.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Penalty rates Crucial Safety Net For Low Paid
Reply #85 - Mar 24^th, 2016 at 12:05pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 5:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:

They are compulsory

no they are not. You can employ someone for ten years and never pay penalty rates

Exactly.

The person who determines if penalty rates are paid or not, is the employer.

Nobody else.

If they choose to operate outside of normal business hours, then they will need to pay penalty rates (to compensate the employees for working unsocial hours).

However, the decision to open on Sundays or Public Holidays is theirs, and theirs alone. The employee can't make that decision.

the employee CHOOSES???? obviously you've never been in business or the like. employees do not CHOOSE to work a particular time. their employer does

I think I'm starting to see your problem ... you can't far ken read English can you? Where does he say the employee chooses?

It's a Costel genetic flaw.....

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