longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 12:15pm:


Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:12pm:


Nobody is asking for an increase.

Penalty rates have been around for years.

Workers aren't asking for more money - employers are offering less.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:40pm:


100% correct.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:12pm:


No it isn't an increase on the base wage - the base wage remains the same and will be clearly marked that way on the pay slip. Had the penalty rate altered the base rate it would then apply to all hours worked.

I wait for libs to take this to the election campaign. 
and if they win government without putting this as an election promise and does go on ahead, they will not last the next one.  It will be careful planning by the next lib government to make it count and rort the taxpayer as much as possible before they get kicked out.

Libs simply cannot be trusted with your wages and working conditions

Dnarever wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:40pm:


For chrissake, to be part of the market, penalty rates have to respond to demand and supply.  They don't.

A market is just a collection of buyers and sellers.  In a labour market 'Employers' buy labour whilst 'Employees' sell labour. 

Penalty rates are fixed.  They are compulsory.  They are imposed by regulation, which is outside the market.

If there is a lack of supply of labour on Sunday, then the market rate for wages will go up as employers will likely offer higher pay to attract the labour.  That is a market.

Likewise in a labour market if there are lots of unemployed workers (an over supply of labour) then the price of labour will come down (unless an outside the market force like GOVT regulation or Collusion by Unions) interferes with the market.

In a market, if the price of product is too high, demand for the product decreases.

In a labour market, if the price of labour is too high, then demand for labour decreases.  People become unemployed.

For some businesses the price of labour increased by penalty rates on Sunday is too high, so their demand for labour drops on Sundays.  That leads to unemployment.

Unemployment is the price society pays for fixed, outside the market penalty rates. Simple but unpalatable fact 

This price, used to be affordable say 40 years ago or so.  Australian business arguably had the productivity and competitive edge 40 years ago for these IR extravagances but times have changed.

Swagman wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:23pm:


The biggest load of bullshit I've ever read.

You need to take a look at the real world, Timbo.

"If there is a lack of supply of labour on Sunday, then the market rate for wages will go up as employers will likely offer higher pay to attract the labour."

If there is a lack of supply of labour on Sunday, the employer will offer an ultimatum: "show up for work on Sunday, or don't bother coming back at all".

Moreover, penalty rates don't contribute to unemployment (abolishing them, however, has the potential to increase unemployment).

Forget your market theory, and take a look at what actually happens in the real world.