Australian Politics Forum - Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government Reply #15 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government Reply #16 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:38pm John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm: Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business. He made his money as a farmer , pilot , surgeon astronaut .
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John Smith

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #17 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:43pm

Its time wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

He made his money as a farmer , pilot , surgeon astronaut .

he tried a mower run, it was to hard for him so he quit and got into nursing.

I bet he hasn't once refused to take penalty rates as a nurse, and I'll also bet he not once paid penalty rates when he had his mower run. Now he's studying stonzology

( stronzo
Italian slang for "asshole." Carries connotation of dumb-ass tendencies in addition to obnoxiousness.
)

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Its time

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #18 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:59pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:43pm:

Its time wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

He made his money as a farmer , pilot , surgeon astronaut .

he tried a mower run, it was to hard for him so he quit and got into nursing.

I bet he hasn't once refused to take penalty rates as a nurse, and I'll also bet he not once paid penalty rates when he had his mower run. Now he's studying stonzology

( stronzo
Italian slang for "asshole." Carries connotation of dumb-ass tendencies in addition to obnoxiousness.
)

The nurses would've run him out of town when he started crying about having to accept penalty rates

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28509 Gender:	Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government Reply #19 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm: Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business. Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #20 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:45pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:43pm:

Its time wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

He made his money as a farmer , pilot , surgeon astronaut .

he tried a mower run, it was to hard for him so he quit and got into nursing.

I bet he hasn't once refused to take penalty rates as a nurse, and I'll also bet he not once paid penalty rates when he had his mower run. Now he's studying stonzology

( stronzo
Italian slang for "asshole." Carries connotation of dumb-ass tendencies in addition to obnoxiousness.
)

I see you forget easily. I was in nursing for 6 years first, predominantly in palliative care (end of life care) which is quite demanding on the mind and I took a break and did something completely different for 5 years (lawn mowing). That was a great way to keep fit and take my mind off peoples' suffering for 5 years. Then I decided to get back into nursing for a number of reasons, including that owning a franchise was a waste of money with most of my earnings going into franchise fees, insurance, paying employees and other regular costs associated with running such a business. The other reason was that I just missed nursing and I went back into nursing for another four years but almost all of the nursing work is casual or short-term contract work, which is incredibly unstable with a wife, two kids and a mortgage. As for your snipe about me paying penalty rates, of course I did when I had to. But it was a rare occurrence, such as having to catch up on work over a weekend due to a few days of rain, for example. On public holidays, etc I just worked alone and gave my employees the day off because I would've gone broke if I kept them on every public holiday and double time-and-a-half.

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stunspore

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #21 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 4:14pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

I would tell them not to vote for libs. anyone else but no them.

Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #22 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 4:19pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 8:38am:

Nobody is asking for more money.

Really?

Yes, really.

Nobody is asking for anything extra.

What part of that don't you understand?

People are trying to take money away from workers - the workers aren't asking for anything new.

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is only surpassed by Swagman (who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about when it comes to penalty rates).

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #23 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 4:22pm

Its time wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 1:51pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 11:49am:

Wolseley wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

It's not screwing anyone over.

Except employers.

No it isn’t.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.

One hundred years ago, the cost of living wasn't as high as it is now.

Neither were the wages.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

Nobody is asking for more money.

Really? Then there's no need for penalty rates.

Nobody is asking for more money because penalty rates are in place. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Penalty rates are IN ADDITION to an individual's wage, so yes, they are asking for more money than what their wage stipulates.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.

Nor do they create jobs, because they increase expenses on business and therefore are a disincentive for business to employ more people.

Following on from that amazing piece of logic (and I’m using the word loosely) one would then expect that if you cut everyone’s wages by half, which is probably something that would appeal to the likes of you, you would then double employment.

That would certainly increase employment because employers would have more revenue to put toward new employees, but no one (including myself) is advocating that.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 9:59am:

Crisis over.

Not by a long shot.

There is no crisis.

Tell that to the business owners struggling to pay their mortgage because penalty rates are impinging on their profits.

You sould get some mileage out of this doozy greg Wink

Honestly, I thought Swagman was the most ignorant forum member when it comes to penalty rates.

However, Armpit is certainly giving him a run for his money.

I've never seen such ill-informed nonsense in all my life.

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stunspore

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #24 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 5:06pm

Lib supporters are pretty ignorant...they don't understand knock-on effects when penalty rates are gone.

As for the excuse of not "advocating lower wages" - yeh right. they advocate for real drops in wages. it's interesting that the type of spending between different income groups vary and hence the cost of living will increase at different rates between groups. just because certain groups ask for above CPI rise - that might not reflect the fact that the inflation rise for that income group is different. After all, health insurance typically increases above CPI.

Let's say this one more time - penalty rates are here to stay. A business that can't handle penalty rates should not operate. labour costs are low hanging fruit that gets abused - it's why you get exploitation e.g. interns, trainees, students, internationals. They aren't even paying them the correct minimum wage anyway. The usual lib response/wishlist is threefold: victimise the victims, attack unions and attempt to legislate lower wages.

How about libs for once deal with the bigger sections of the expense pie? like commercial rents/insurance, utilities. Rents/premises can be less by focusing less on property speculation and putting more investment in this area - say by diverting residential property investment (from negative gearing?) to more on commercial and hence increasing supply. As a coincidence, labor policy and not lib policy might do that.
Utilities - how about focus on less privatisation rhetoric. After all, privatising aims at returning investment to shareholders, not cheaper prices. Yes you could argue market forces - but it sure isn't cheaper in Victoria after they sold off.

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Ajax

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #25 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

Since the GFC in 2008 all I've heard is we cannot afford to give pay rises, profits are down, hard times are upon us etc etc.

Since 2008 pay rises have been far and few between, yet the cost of living continues to rise.

If they now start attacking the conditions and pay we already have, what will become of workers.

If the workers have no money to spend our economy will go down the toilet and so will all the big and small businesses.

I say to those damn greedy employers big or small, weekends are some of the busiest days for them, so give to the workers also so that you yourself may survive.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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John Smith

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #26 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:05pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.

so you admit it's about increasing profits and not to help unemployment? Cheesy

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John Smith

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #27 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:09pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.

and how many of those businesses customers are people who receive penalty rates? You don't think cutting their customers pay might affect how much their customers spend? Despite your claims, unless you're a huge multinational, profits won't increase by as much as you think they will.

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Our esteemed leader:
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Bam

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #28 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:55pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.

A smaller profit is still a profit.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #29 - Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:57pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

Armpit, with or without penalty rates, you'd still go broke in business.

Tell that to the thousands of small business owners out there who are making a profit, albeit a smaller one than would be possible without penalty rates.

so you admit it's about increasing profits and not to help unemployment? Cheesy

Owned.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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