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Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government (Read 2122 times)
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Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Mar 14th, 2016 at 6:59am
 
Preserve penalty rates to protect Victorian workers: state government

Date
    March 14, 2016
    The Age

Penalty rates should be preserved to protect Victoria's "most vulnerable" workers, the state government has told the national workplace tribunal.   Smiley

The Fair Work Commission is holding a review into penalty rates in the hospitality and retail sectors.

A broad range of groups have made submissions to the review, ranging from churches and unions to industry associations and politicians.

The Victorian government's submission argues penalty rates have been a long-standing feature of Australia's industrial relations system.


"Reducing penalty rates will erode those protections with a particularly negative impact on the lowest paid Victorian workers," it said.

Some workers relied on penalty rates to meet basic household expenses, the submission said.

"Penalty rates remain an important way to compensate workers for the social and health impacts of working unsociable hours during weekends, public holidays and on shift work."

The submission said penalty rates can be a smaller impost on businesses than other expenses including council rates, commercial rent and taxes.

The Australian Industry Group is among those seeking changes to awards, including the reduction but not abolition of Sunday penalty rates.

The government's submission said there was no "convincing evidence" that reducing penalty rates would create more jobs but it did concede lower penalty rates may lead to some businesses extending their opening hours.

"The Victorian government submits that a change to penalty rates, while providing some financial benefit to business, comes at too high a price," it said.

The Fair Work Commission review comes after a separate Productivity Commission report recommended Sunday rates be reduced to match Saturday rates.

Industrial Relations Minister Natalie Hutchins said many Victorians relied on penalty rates to "make ends meet".

"Retail, hospitality and accommodation workers should not be treated any less favourably than workers in other sectors, creating an unfair, two-tier system of entitlements and an under-class of Australian workers," she said.


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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 7:17am
 
When they have the football grand finals on Tuesday Morning then I say cut Penalty rates in the mean time leave them alone
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #2 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am
 
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:38am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am:
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.


It's not screwing anyone over.

Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.

Nobody is asking for more money.

Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.

Crisis over.

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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:44am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:38am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am:
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.


It's not screwing anyone over.

Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.

Nobody is asking for more money.

Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.

Crisis over.



...
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:17am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am:
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.


I welcome lib governments (state and fed) to go into any election campaign taking down penalty rates.  They are cowards not to.  If you want to take something that is part of Australia, do it with the consent of the public.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:48am
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:17am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am:
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.


I welcome lib governments (state and fed) to go into any election campaign taking down penalty rates.  They are cowards not to.  If you want to take something that is part of Australia, do it with the consent of the public.


They know it will be political suicide so the Libs will continue to do what they have done for nearly 3 years, absolutely nothing.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:38am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:27am:
Of course a LABOR state government is going to be all for screwing business owners over with penalty rates. It's a rather apt name - they penalise business owners who want to employ the unemployed.


It's not screwing anyone over.
Except employers.


Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.
One hundred years ago, the cost of living wasn't as high as it is now.


Nobody is asking for more money.
Really? Then there's no need for penalty rates.


Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.
Nor do they create jobs, because they increase expenses on business and therefore are a disincentive for business to employ more people.


Crisis over.
Not by a long shot.



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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 10:40am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
It's not screwing anyone over.
Except employers.

No it isn’t.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.
One hundred years ago, the cost of living wasn't as high as it is now.

Neither were the wages.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Nobody is asking for more money.
Really? Then there's no need for penalty rates.

Nobody is asking for more money because penalty rates are in place.  Is that too hard for you to understand?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.
Nor do they create jobs, because they increase expenses on business and therefore are a disincentive for business to employ more people.

Following on from that amazing piece of logic (and I’m using the word loosely) one would then expect that if you cut everyone’s wages by half, which is probably something that would appeal to the likes of you, you would then double employment.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Crisis over.
Not by a long shot.

There is no crisis.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 11:27am
 
I think well thought out by Woseley but ignored/cannot be understood by lib supporters.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #10 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 11:49am
 
Wolseley wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 10:40am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
It's not screwing anyone over.
Except employers.

No it isn’t.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.
One hundred years ago, the cost of living wasn't as high as it is now.

Neither were the wages.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Nobody is asking for more money.
Really? Then there's no need for penalty rates.

Nobody is asking for more money because penalty rates are in place.  Is that too hard for you to understand?
Penalty rates are IN ADDITION to an individual's wage, so yes, they are asking for more money than what their wage stipulates.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.
Nor do they create jobs, because they increase expenses on business and therefore are a disincentive for business to employ more people.

Following on from that amazing piece of logic (and I’m using the word loosely) one would then expect that if you cut everyone’s wages by half, which is probably something that would appeal to the likes of you, you would then double employment.
That would certainly increase employment because employers would have more revenue to put toward new employees, but no one (including myself) is advocating that.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Crisis over.
Not by a long shot.

There is no crisis.
Tell that to the business owners struggling to pay their mortgage because penalty rates are impinging on their profits.


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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #11 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 12:09pm
 
Penalty rates are in addition to normal rates because you are asked to work out of normal hours or weekends or public holidays etc etc.

The workers are doing the employer a favour by turning up to work for them on week ends and public holidays enabling them to make more profit while the employee sacrifices time with the family or if young party time.

Its a win win all the way.

Just because these greedy employers want to make even more at the expense of the worker doesn't make it right as you seem to think it is.

Are you seriously trying to say that Coles Woollies etc suffer from penalty rates..????
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #12 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 12:41pm
 
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/labour-day-why-you-have-the-day-off-20160311-g...

continual erosion of working conditions.  All that was fought/negotiated to be lost.
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 1:51pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 11:49am:
Wolseley wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 10:40am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
It's not screwing anyone over.
Except employers.

No it isn’t.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Penalty rates have been around for a hundred years.
One hundred years ago, the cost of living wasn't as high as it is now.

Neither were the wages.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Nobody is asking for more money.
Really? Then there's no need for penalty rates.

Nobody is asking for more money because penalty rates are in place.  Is that too hard for you to understand?
Penalty rates are IN ADDITION to an individual's wage, so yes, they are asking for more money than what their wage stipulates.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Moreover, penalty rates do not create unemployment.
Nor do they create jobs, because they increase expenses on business and therefore are a disincentive for business to employ more people.

Following on from that amazing piece of logic (and I’m using the word loosely) one would then expect that if you cut everyone’s wages by half, which is probably something that would appeal to the likes of you, you would then double employment.
That would certainly increase employment because employers would have more revenue to put toward new employees, but no one (including myself) is advocating that.


Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14th, 2016 at 9:59am:
Crisis over.
Not by a long shot.

There is no crisis.
Tell that to the business owners struggling to pay their mortgage because penalty rates are impinging on their profits.




You sould get some mileage out of this doozy greg  Wink
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Re: Preserve Penalty Rates Says State Government
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2016 at 2:31pm
 
So business proprietors can’t afford to pay workers more on weekends?  If you go about with your eyes open, it is blindingly obvious that shops, cafes, restaurants and tourist attractions are busiest on weekend and public holidays.  Penalty rates, which are so named because they are a penalty on employers for requiring staff to work anti-social hours, have been around for about a century, and it seems odd that they are only now being seen as a problem.

Charging a weekend or public holiday surcharge on drinks and meals is a pretty widespread practice and has been for decades, although there was a short period recently where a surcharge became technically illegal due to a change in the wording of the relevant legislation, but that was changed and the status quo was reinstated.

Those of us who work odd times so the rest of us can relax should be adequately compensated.

In any case, a business proprietor who opens a restaurant and cafe does so in the full knowledge that, if he wants to operate at night, weekends and public holidays, he will have to pay his staff penalty rates.  If he has any brains, he will factor this into his business plan.  Any cafe or restaurant proprietor who says that penalty rates are threatening his business is either lying, because he wants to make more profit for no more expense, or he hasn’t done a proper business plan because he has failed to factor in all his expenses.  In other words, it is nothing to do with his staff, the problems are due to inadequate or maybe even non-existent planning.  How many businesses fail in their first year or so of operation due to lack of planning?  Aside from a few greedy ones who want more profit and wouldn’t hire any more staff anyway, it is those who don’t think through their business plans who seem to be the biggest critics of penalty rates.  Their businesses collapse in a sea of red ink and, instead of conceding that their own incompetence was the reason, the try to shift the blame to their workers, for wanting a fair living wage.

And the hourly wages in the hospitality and retail sectors are fairly low in comparison to areas that offer employment 9 to 5, five days a week. This is because these people earn above their basic salary due to penalty rates.  Their award rates take to account their probable income from penalty rates.  Remove the penalty rates and a lot of these people would be struggling to survive.
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