Australian Politics Forum - Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame

ian

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #30 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:39pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

The crew of the people smuggling boat were paid by the illegals who wanted to come here. The governmwnt gave no money to the smugglers OR the fishermen who took them back to Indonesia. The government paid no one anything. The navy just provided rice, water, fuel and life jackets. That's all. No laws were broken - real or imagined.

Thats not correct, the crew of the boats are being paid by the organisers, not the illegals. Its an important distinction..

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John Smith

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #31 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:40pm

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 3:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 1:43pm:

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 11:15am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:24am:

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

If our government has paid the crews to turn back then whats the issue?

it's illegal to pay people smugglers.

and? Thats your sole, reason? The crew on the boats are technically people smugglers, yes. But they are at the bottom of the food chain, generally poverty stricken Indonesian villagers from remote areas, used as dupes by the organisers and paid very little. Paying these people not to deliver their human cargo if it happened is a very smart move as it breaks the organisers model.

it's also my sole reason for not shooting certain people.

I doubt it. I can also guarantee that you break the law every day in some way, just like everybody else.

i doubt it.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #32 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:20pm

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

The crew of the people smuggling boat were paid by the illegals who wanted to come here. The governmwnt gave no money to the smugglers OR the fishermen who took them back to Indonesia. The government paid no one anything. The navy just provided rice, water, fuel and life jackets. That's all. No laws were broken - real or imagined.

Thats not correct, the crew of the boats are being paid by the organisers, not the illegals. Its an important distinction..

Actually, the important distinction to understand is that the Australian government paid no one anything.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame Reply #33 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:32pm The only distinction we can make is the boats are still coming and as we have ran out of 200k life boats we now expect indo civilians to take them back to the mainland , apparently for free , which I'm am not buying
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Mr Hammer

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #34 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:35pm

Its time wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

The only distinction we can make is the boats are still coming and as we have ran out of 200k life boats we now expect indo civilians to take them back to the mainland , apparently for free , which I'm am not buying Roll Eyes

They were in Indonesian waters. They weren't being taken back anywhere . If the Australian Navy didn't come to the scene they were shark bait.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #35 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

The crew of the people smuggling boat were paid by the illegals who wanted to come here. The governmwnt gave no money to the smugglers OR the fishermen who took them back to Indonesia. The government paid no one anything. The navy just provided rice, water, fuel and life jackets. That's all. No laws were broken - real or imagined.

Thats not correct, the crew of the boats are being paid by the organisers, not the illegals. Its an important distinction..

Actually, the important distinction to understand is that the Australian government paid no one anything.

yes, well, that's the crux of the matter isn't it ?
Not just some theoretical ideal.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #36 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:35pm:

Its time wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

The only distinction we can make is the boats are still coming and as we have ran out of 200k life boats we now expect indo civilians to take them back to the mainland , apparently for free , which I'm am not buying Roll Eyes

They were in Indonesian waters. They weren't being taken back anywhere . If the Australian Navy didn't come to the scene they were shark bait.

sharks gotta eat something

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ian

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #37 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:38pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

The crew of the people smuggling boat were paid by the illegals who wanted to come here. The governmwnt gave no money to the smugglers OR the fishermen who took them back to Indonesia. The government paid no one anything. The navy just provided rice, water, fuel and life jackets. That's all. No laws were broken - real or imagined.

Thats not correct, the crew of the boats are being paid by the organisers, not the illegals. Its an important distinction..

Actually, the important distinction to understand is that the Australian government paid no one anything.

I dont believe that for a second.

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 20161 Gender:	Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame Reply #38 - Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:40pm ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:38pm: I dont believe that for a second. Do you some concrete reference on which to hang your hat, for that?
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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28516 Gender:	Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame Reply #39 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 5:56am lee wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:40pm: ian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 10:38pm: I dont believe that for a second. Do you some concrete reference on which to hang your hat, for that? Just a burning hatred of the Coalition. Does that count?
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Soren

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #40 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:27am

Its time wrote on Mar 11^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

The only distinction we can make is the boats are still coming and as we have ran out of 200k life boats we now expect indo civilians to take them back to the mainland , apparently for free , which I'm am not buying Roll Eyes

These people are not fleeing persecution in Indonesia - so why is it so bad that Australia insist on lawful entry and doesn't allow in illegal entrants? Why is it so bad to enforce the law?

Or would you like Australia to follow Europe's and America's example and allow people to enter the country contrary to the relevant laws?

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John Smith

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #41 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:46am

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:27am:

These people are not fleeing persecution in Indonesia - so why is it so bad that Australia insist on lawful entry and doesn't allow in illegal entrants? Why is it so bad to enforce the law?

Indonesia isn't a signatory to the UN refugee convention. They have no rights in Indo ... Australia is a signatory. Australia should either withdraw from the convention or uphold it's commitments.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #42 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:50am

John Smith wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:46am:

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:27am:

These people are not fleeing persecution in Indonesia - so why is it so bad that Australia insist on lawful entry and doesn't allow in illegal entrants? Why is it so bad to enforce the law?

Indonesia isn't a signatory to the UN refugee convention. They have no rights in Indo ... Australia is a signatory. Australia should either withdraw from the convention or uphold it's commitments.

We do - we take in more than 12,000 refugees every year. That's 12,000 who know how to do the right thing and who are actually in need of asylum. If they can do the right thing, so can those country-shoppers.

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John Smith

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #43 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:55am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:46am:

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:27am:

These people are not fleeing persecution in Indonesia - so why is it so bad that Australia insist on lawful entry and doesn't allow in illegal entrants? Why is it so bad to enforce the law?

Indonesia isn't a signatory to the UN refugee convention. They have no rights in Indo ... Australia is a signatory. Australia should either withdraw from the convention or uphold it's commitments.

We do - we take in more than 12,000 refugees every year. That's 12,000 who know how to do the right thing and who are actually in need of asylum. If they can do the right thing, so can those country-shoppers.

right thing? you mean when they went in the wrong direction, unlawfully entered another country or countries and then the UN sent them here, that was the right thing?

There isn't a right or wrong way to do it. There is no instruction manual. Those who have money available have more options open to them. Those that don't have money can only walk. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paying the boats to stop shame shame shame
Reply #44 - Mar 12^th, 2016 at 9:03am

John Smith wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:50am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:46am:

Soren wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 8:27am:

These people are not fleeing persecution in Indonesia - so why is it so bad that Australia insist on lawful entry and doesn't allow in illegal entrants? Why is it so bad to enforce the law?

Indonesia isn't a signatory to the UN refugee convention. They have no rights in Indo ... Australia is a signatory. Australia should either withdraw from the convention or uphold it's commitments.

We do - we take in more than 12,000 refugees every year. That's 12,000 who know how to do the right thing and who are actually in need of asylum. If they can do the right thing, so can those country-shoppers.

right thing? you mean when they went in the wrong direction, unlawfully entered another country or countries and then the UN sent them here, that was the right thing?

There isn't a right or wrong way to do it. There is no instruction manual. Those who have money available have more options open to them. Those that don't have money can only walk. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Unlawfully entering another country and then being sent here? Are you THAT daft? If you''re referring to the Syrians that Abbott agreed to take in, then they're in refugee camps run by the UNHCR, not those people who ran all the way across Europe, knocking down border gates and trampling the sovereignty of numerous countries with a general attitude of "take us in or else". The 12,000 I referred to are people who applied for refugee status through the UNHCR, waited in refugee camps and were eventually sent here. They did the right thing. Would-be illegal immigrants have been warned by this government that if they want to come here, they need to avail themselves of the proper refugee processes and that if they utilise people smugglers, they will never be resettled here. It's very clear and the hard line of this government has stopped us from enduring what Germany and most of Europe is now experiencing with the tsunami of people flooding the lax borders of the EU.

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