Australian Politics Forum - Government to change Senate voting laws

Bam

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #60 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 6:41am

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 6:26am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

for gods sakes aussie...

if you think that an arsewipe like Muir being in the Senate with 475 votes is democracy... then you have no Political Credibility at all...

that bogan lambie and fat laz didn't even get 2000 votes and now mouthing off all over the media holding Australians to ransom???

you think that's ok???

struth... if that's the case then you may as well move in with Kat... Roll Eyes

Do you really think the government having majority control in both houses is a good thing? The last time we had that, we got Workchoices - a radical and unpopular policy that was never revealed at the election that gave the Coalition majority control.

Whenever the government has majority control, there's always the real risk of bad laws getting passed. Just look at what happens in Queensland whenever the government has a majority. Mistakes are more likely to happen, or the government passes laws that enrich their mates.

I do not want that. We have a political system that is prone to corruption. Without a deliberative Senate able to reject bad laws, there would be nothing to stop a government from passing laws to enrich themselves or their donors and changing the political system to entrench themselves in power for as long as possible.

The Senate is not a select club for anyone with a born-to-rule mentality or the establishment of the major parties. Anyone who can get elected should be allowed to try.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28479 Gender:	Re: Government to change Senate voting laws Reply #61 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:01am Muir is the biggest joke with less than 500 votes. What a bogan fool he is!
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Government to change Senate voting laws Reply #62 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:31am the senate voting paper was tooooooooooo long. Something needed to change. I haven't seen the detail of this policy as I've been on the road for a few days, but on the face of it, it looks good to me.
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mariacostel

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #63 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

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cods

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #64 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:36am

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 6:26am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

for gods sakes aussie...

if you think that an arsewipe like Muir being in the Senate with 475 votes is democracy... then you have no Political Credibility at all...

that bogan lambie and fat laz didn't even get 2000 votes and now mouthing off all over the media holding Australians to ransom???

you think that's ok???

struth... if that's the case then you may as well move in with Kat... Roll Eyes

Quote:

The current system had been "taken advantage of" he said, highlighting Victorian crossbencher Ricky Muir, who was elected with only 0.5 per cent of the vote.

$200,000 a year for .5% of the vote... ??? Cheesy

it is a blooming JOKE no doubt about it..

but aussie elected half the "independents"...

so of course he supports something that adds million if not billions to the cost of running the govt...

everything is a stalemate......

wasnt Muir unemployed?????......yeah right..

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mariacostel

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #65 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:39am

Kat wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:09pm:

Kat wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:50pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:35pm:

Kat wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:06pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 1:54pm:

Kat wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 12:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 11:33am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 11:31am:

Kat wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 11:20am:

What part of 'NO government should EVER be permitted to control both Houses' don't these right-wing fektards understand???

oh for crying out loud...

the political retard strikes again... Roll Eyes

Kat's reliable, gotta give her that!

And 100% correct.

.....and 100% in fantasy land as usual Cheesy

Insults don't make me any less correct, either.

NOTHING could ever make you correct.

Except for the fact that I AM correct.

Suck it up.

If you think you are correct then why not put up an actual ARGUMENT instead of just venting you infected spleen?

Make your case or just shut up.

I have.

On numerous occasions.

You were probably too busy trolling, and missed it.

You are incapable of making a considered argument. You just vent your infected spleen and go back to your 4hr/wk job.

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John Smith

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #66 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:40am

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

what is unfair and undemocratic about the minors doing deals? the libs do it all the time and you don't whinge.

Over 50% of the population voted against the GST when it was introduced, yet you didn't call it undemocratic when Howard bought it in anyway, did you?. The public voted to bring in an ETS and you supported the libs when they refused to back it didn't you? What happened to democracy then?

It's funny how you use the undemocratic excuse when it suits but forget all about it when push comes to shove

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Government to change Senate voting laws Reply #67 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:41am mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:39am: You are incapable of making a considered argument. You just vent your infected spleen and go back to your 4hr/wk job. was that an example of your considered argument?
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mariacostel

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #68 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:41am

Bam wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 6:41am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 6:26am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

for gods sakes aussie...

if you think that an arsewipe like Muir being in the Senate with 475 votes is democracy... then you have no Political Credibility at all...

that bogan lambie and fat laz didn't even get 2000 votes and now mouthing off all over the media holding Australians to ransom???

you think that's ok???

struth... if that's the case then you may as well move in with Kat... Roll Eyes

Do you really think the government having majority control in both houses is a good thing? The last time we had that, we got Workchoices - a radical and unpopular policy that was never revealed at the election that gave the Coalition majority control.

Whenever the government has majority control, there's always the real risk of bad laws getting passed. Just look at what happens in Queensland whenever the government has a majority. Mistakes are more likely to happen, or the government passes laws that enrich their mates.

I do not want that. We have a political system that is prone to corruption. Without a deliberative Senate able to reject bad laws, there would be nothing to stop a government from passing laws to enrich themselves or their donors and changing the political system to entrench themselves in power for as long as possible.

The Senate is not a select club for anyone with a born-to-rule mentality or the establishment of the major parties. Anyone who can get elected should be allowed to try.

There is nothing in this proposal that is likely to give senate control to either party. It is trying to ensure that those elected were actually elected by the people and not by preference-whispering. Xenophons running mat got 0.8 of a quota and was no elected while people like muir got elected on virtually nothing at all. It is undemocratic.

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cods

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #69 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:43am

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

why dont we have people who get elected because they are a member of a party...

only to decide they will become an independent before 12 months is up.....

be made to stand down....

if they cannot stand the party they joined why should we have to put up with them for 6 years.. Angry

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mariacostel

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #70 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:50am

cods wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:43am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

why dont we have people who get elected because they are a member of a party...

only to decide they will become an independent before 12 months is up.....

be made to stand down....

if they cannot stand the party they joined why should we have to put up with them for 6 years.. Angry

To be fair, both Muir and Madigan were thrown out of their respective parties.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #71 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:52am

John Smith wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:40am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

what is unfair and undemocratic about the minors doing deals? the libs do it all the time and you don't whinge.

Over 50% of the population voted against the GST when it was introduced, yet you didn't call it undemocratic when Howard bought it in anyway, did you?. The public voted to bring in an ETS and you supported the libs when they refused to back it didn't you? What happened to democracy then?

It's funny how you use the undemocratic excuse when it suits but forget all about it when push comes to shove

Muir got elected with just 16 first preference votes. Still think that is democratic? By the way, if you wondered how Muir got elected, see the following link...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/how-did-ricky-muir-...

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Government to change Senate voting laws Reply #72 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:53am The senate is unworkable in the eyes of a Libtard when the reality is they're doing an excellent job knocking back toxic policy.
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John Smith

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #73 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:55am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:52am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:40am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

what is unfair and undemocratic about the minors doing deals? the libs do it all the time and you don't whinge.

Over 50% of the population voted against the GST when it was introduced, yet you didn't call it undemocratic when Howard bought it in anyway, did you?. The public voted to bring in an ETS and you supported the libs when they refused to back it didn't you? What happened to democracy then?

It's funny how you use the undemocratic excuse when it suits but forget all about it when push comes to shove

Muir got elected with just 16 first preference votes. Still think that is democratic? By the way, if you wondered how Muir got elected, see the following link...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/how-did-ricky-muir-...

wrong ... Muir got elected with 16 primary votes and thousands and thousands of preference votes. You can't just ignore them because it suits you. That is how our system works. If people didn't want preferences to go to muir they should have given him their preference.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Government to change Senate voting laws
Reply #74 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 8:02am

John Smith wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:55am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:52am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:40am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 7:35am:

Aussie wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Cods, I don't care which Party has Government whether that be the Coalition, Labor, Greens or even PUP. I do not want that Party to have control of the Senate. I like what we have......some people from left field.....ordinary Australians.......in a position that the Government has to convince them (unless the other major Party supports a Government proposal in the Senate) that what they propose is good for the Country.

Why dont we just have people elected fairly and democratically and let the results speak for themselves.

what is unfair and undemocratic about the minors doing deals? the libs do it all the time and you don't whinge.

Over 50% of the population voted against the GST when it was introduced, yet you didn't call it undemocratic when Howard bought it in anyway, did you?. The public voted to bring in an ETS and you supported the libs when they refused to back it didn't you? What happened to democracy then?

It's funny how you use the undemocratic excuse when it suits but forget all about it when push comes to shove

Muir got elected with just 16 first preference votes. Still think that is democratic? By the way, if you wondered how Muir got elected, see the following link...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/how-did-ricky-muir-...

wrong ... Muir got elected with 16 primary votes and thousands and thousands of preference votes. You can't just ignore them because it suits you. That is how our system works. If people didn't want preferences to go to muir they should have given him their preference.

You're wrong. Open this link and scroll down to ticket Z where Muir is and go across to the far right. You'll note that this is the AEC website for first preference votes in the senate race of 2013, and it shows the total number of first preference votes to Muir was 16. Ergo, I was right, you were wrong.

http://results.aec.gov.au/17496/Website/SenateDivisionFirstPrefsByVoteType-17496...

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