Australian Politics Forum - Now they want GM trees!

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Now they want GM trees! Feb 6^th, 2016 at 7:07am These can be planted in totally unregulated manner! http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/02/06/genetically-engine... Our biodiversity is being destroyed—think Irish Potato Famine!
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miketrees

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #1 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 8:39am

I started reading that.

There is a lot of half truths and then some lies, then there are a few good points.

Its true, trees will lower the water table, but any tree will do that GM or not.(half truth)

Yes eucalypts are a giant fire hazard, but they are if they are GM or not.

Its just as devastating to your biodiversity if you plant introduced species, GM or not.

I guess they have to try and sensationalise it or no bastard will listen.

I would rather just have the facts without the half truths.

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John_Taverner

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #2 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:09am

I agree with you on the half truths and lies. The health food industry seems to get away with lying.

There are very few GM crops allowed in Australia. Cotton is one (various types). Canola/Oilseed (again various types) is another, and I think there is a flower - possibly a carnation from memory.

There are also a few medicinal applications (vaccines etc).

There have been controlled trials with bananas and rice, but so far (as far as I'm aware) they have not been approved for release.

The Office of the Gene Technology Regulator tends to be a lot more conservative than other countries.

http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/Content/gmorec-index-1

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Now they want GM trees! Reply #3 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:13am Nothing in the article said it was being planted here, John. If you want fast growing then why not plant bamboo? Or hemp for paper? Why interfere with genes then plant swathes of monocrop?
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #4 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:26am

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:13am:

Nothing in the article said it was being planted here, John.

If you want fast growing then why not plant bamboo? Or hemp for paper? Why interfere with genes then plant swathes of monocrop?

Well done, excellent common sense remarks made by your good self this fine Saturday morning

Again, Well done.

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John_Taverner

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #5 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:33am

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:13am:

Nothing in the article said it was being planted here, John.

I know. I was just adding some words of wisdom. Wink

Quote:

If you want fast growing then why not plant bamboo? Or hemp for paper? Why interfere with genes then plant swathes of monocrop?

I can see the justification for cotton and oilseed. The end product is not consumed in the case of cotton, and the resultant oil from oilseed contains no genetic material.

If at this stage growers were forced to grow non GM cotton and oilseed, they'd very quickly be out of business due to competition. (correct me if I'm wrong Mike) The market for "organic" cotton is very limited.

I'd be interested in Mike's opinion on GM organisms.

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miketrees

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #6 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:26am

I'd be interested in Mike's opinion on GM organisms.

Thank you John, if you meant me.

My view.

Every GM crop should be judged on its own merit, this Orwellian all GM bad all organic good is unhelpful.

There will be useful harmless GM that will be a great benefit to humanity and the environment we should not burn them like witches in Salem.
I think there could be some magnificent work done with salt tolerance in grain crops just for starters

There will be GM that do pose a threat (herbicide resistance that could arm weed species through cross pollination)

I have a great deal of sympathy for organic growers who get their crops contaminated by GM pollen or seed and therefore get penalised.
As a land owner I can not use chemicals that cross fences without fear of having to compensate for any damage done.
I don't see why letting DNA escape my property should be any different.

I would have strengthened the laws on who had a financial liability if GM genes escaped and caused harm.
And that liability should be with the plant breeder or originator of the crop and not passed onto the end user ,,, who should also carry some liability.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #7 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:39am

You don’t think relying on single GM varieties leaves us open to a new pest or disease wiping out crops in a wide area? Like the Irish Potato Famine.

I very much prefer not to eat GMO foods and I do doubt their safety: different genes create different proteins that may cause problems.

Genes escape readily—rye grass around GM canola for example.

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boxy

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #8 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:14pm

Quote:

On these proposed GMO tree plantations, there are essentially no other plants, insects, birds, or wildlife — just rows upon rows of cloned Frankentrees growing at accelerated rates on a crust of dead, lifeless soil above dwindling groundwater reserves

I got this far into the article, and it became clear it was a biased rant pushing an agenda, with little or no regard to a balanced investigation of a complex subject.

Take out the bullshit "Frankentree" word, and every criticism can be equally applied to any intensive crop/plantation, and even then it overstates the truth.

Quote:

You don’t think relying on single GM varieties leaves us open to a new pest or disease wiping out crops in a wide area? Like the Irish Potato Famine.

We've been relying on a few dominant varieties of highly productive plants to feed us for decades (if not centuries) now. The fact that some of them are GM in no way changes this.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Now they want GM trees! Reply #9 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:28pm How are you, boxhead?
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boxy

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #10 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:40pm

Well enough.

The biggest problem I see coming from GM technology, is that it will make it easier for multinationals to control the source of seedstock, not just by physically producing the seed (which is fair enough), but through the courts, using intellectual property rights to stop others from producing seed (even through natural harvesting of "their" strains).

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Now they want GM trees! Reply #11 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:59pm Yup, and organic farmers have been sued because GM seeds landed on their property. Escape of genes could be a big problem too.
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boxy

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #12 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 2:26pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:59pm:

Yup, and organic farmers have been sued because GM seeds landed on their property. Escape of genes could be a big problem too.

No they can't Roll Eyes

You would have to make a conscious effort to knowingly breed from their strain (and then probably on-sell it as well).

Still, I think it is too much, and counter-productive in the long run.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Now they want GM trees!
Reply #13 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 3:17pm

boxy wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 2:26pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 12:59pm:

Yup, and organic farmers have been sued because GM seeds landed on their property. Escape of genes could be a big problem too.

No they can't Roll Eyes

You would have to make a conscious effort to knowingly breed from their strain (and then probably on-sell it as well).

Still, I think it is too much, and counter-productive in the long run.

But it has happened and in Australia too.

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6492 Gender:	Re: Now they want GM trees! Reply #14 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 3:39pm The link to the Marsh Baxter case http://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Judgment%20Summary%20-%20Marsh%20v%20Baxter%20(CIV%201561%20of%202012)%2028%20May%202014.pdf
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