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Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism (Read 5020 times)
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #60 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 6:26pm
 
random wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:57pm:
I was in the IT industry, escaped now.  There was/is an orgaisation titled 'Women in IT', tasked to increase the percentage of women in that industry.  IMHO all it did was emphasis that they were women, not IT workers, fail.

Same with domestic violence (DV).  We already had laws rendering it illegal to assault another person of any sex, but the focus on DV makes it somehow different to the same man bashing someone at the pub.

I am aware of some of the reasons people, lawmakers think that it is different, but I disagree.  It is just violence that existing laws could deal with.

Continuing to define and treat differently, requiring different laws perpetuates the old view that a man bashing his wife is different to a man bashing a stranger.  Fail.


I said exactly that in my (disregarded) submission to the NSW Law Reform Commission on the plan to introduce 'uniform domestic violence laws', as forced on the State by Paul Keating under threat or lesser funding if they refused, in 1992.

Very shortly after my dissenting view was posted to the LRC - I was myself subjected to an assault by AVO at the behest of the sister of a highly placed person in NSW - for no reason whatsoever, since we had been friends and bordering on a relationship for twelve years........ and I married someone else.......

THAT is the truth about the ability of a 'court' to impose a 'violence order' against anyone - no proof required and anything will do... hang those ten innocent men pour encourager les autres, since to do otherwise means 'we' will have no power and we simply must make an example of dissidents...

You think we don't live in an oppressive and violent society that tolerates no dissent, and that people don't have their lives and reputations destroyed at the whim of some public servant or politically self-interested person?

Time you read my books..... such an act is called, in geo-political situations..... a declaration of war as solid as the bombing of Pearl Harbour was....
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Wolseley
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #61 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:54pm
 
random wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:57pm:
We already had laws rendering it illegal to assault another person of any sex, but the focus on DV makes it somehow different to the same man bashing someone at the pub.


Because it is different.  Domestic violence also involves attempts to control another person, is usually accompanied by mental abuse, and is invariably an ongoing process over a period of weeks, months, or even years.  It is much worse and insidious than a one-off assault at the pub.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #62 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm
 
Wolseley wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:54pm:
random wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:57pm:
We already had laws rendering it illegal to assault another person of any sex, but the focus on DV makes it somehow different to the same man bashing someone at the pub.


Because it is different.  Domestic violence also involves attempts to control another person, is usually accompanied by mental abuse, and is invariably an ongoing process over a period of weeks, months, or even years.  It is much worse and insidious than a one-off assault at the pub.


Again - and this in no way applies to a woman making threats and imposing constant put-downs and even applying proxy violence against a man on whim?


How does one go about proving this 'months long abuse'? Because one 'feels like it?

And why is it one-sided ONLY?

I'm afraid many of you have as much to learn about real violence within society as the professor of peace studies does.. when he was foolish enough to ask me if we live in a violent society... and then rejected the answer offered in detail......
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Wolseley
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #63 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:24pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
Again - and this in no way applies to a woman making threats and imposing constant put-downs and even applying proxy violence against a man on whim?

Domestic violence occurs when someone tries to control their partner or other family members in ways intended to intimidate or oppress them.  The perpetrator may be male or female.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
How does one go about proving this 'months long abuse'? Because one 'feels like it?

That would vary from case to case.  there is no one answer to your question.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
And why is it one-sided ONLY?

It isn’t.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
I'm afraid many of you have as much to learn about real violence within society as the professor of peace studies does.. when he was foolish enough to ask me if we live in a violent society... and then rejected the answer offered in detail......

You clearly have some chip on your shoulder that is inhibiting your perception of reality.
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ian
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #64 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:29pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am:
[
you need to get past the idea that "alpha males teaching respect to beta males" is something that they get some sort of cheap thrills out of.
you could easily get the right sort of guys, with a spirit of contribution, encouragement and challenge to rehabilitate beta male criminals. (and believe me, most of them would have other  things to do)

a man who, for instance, is violent to a woman is the very worst type of beta male. he needs to be treated "proactively' and assisted to be a real man, by real men.

he does not need to be treated 'reactively' and imprisoned and taught to be even more bitter, twisted, and emotionally chaotic

yes, good points.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #65 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:39pm
 
Wolseley wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:24pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
Again - and this in no way applies to a woman making threats and imposing constant put-downs and even applying proxy violence against a man on whim?

Domestic violence occurs when someone tries to control their partner or other family members in ways intended to intimidate or oppress them.  The perpetrator may be male or female.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
How does one go about proving this 'months long abuse'? Because one 'feels like it?

That would vary from case to case.  there is no one answer to your question.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
And why is it one-sided ONLY?

It isn’t.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:04pm:
I'm afraid many of you have as much to learn about real violence within society as the professor of peace studies does.. when he was foolish enough to ask me if we live in a violent society... and then rejected the answer offered in detail......

You clearly have some chip on your shoulder that is inhibiting your perception of reality.


I'll get back to you later.. not 'one-sided'?  Show me the men and women out there speaking out against abuse of men verbally and physically.... and not just some endless array of women and feminist running dogs like Morrison II, who are actually addressing the Rosie Batty concepts of FAMILY violence.. and not 'domestic violence' under its current paradigm of 'man perp - woman victim'.

SHOW ME!

Chip on my shoulder?  Sorry, lad - it's not my shoulder you need to look at but at the overall view and the prevailing hot air winds.... you've missed the boat.... and fall squarely into the category of one who does NOT understand societal violence and the institutional place it occupies in this poor fellow - my country.

When your courts and such STOP attempting to beat and browbeat men into submission over 'domestic violence' and actually address the issues of violence in an equal-handed manner.. get back to me.

And stop automatically utilising the Batty incident as some sort of generalised incident with 'man perp' = 'all men are perps and must be condemned without recourse to law lest they harm someone' - the man was a nutter and she allowed it to happen... something she has to live with.

Walk a mile in them shoes and THEN - and only then - talk.

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red baron
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #66 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:26am
 
Fireball, have a aspro and calm down. I am pointing out that you cannot be 'on point' for your children 24/7. Yes her ex was unhinged. But Rosie Batty as a single mother did her utmost to ensure that her son led a normal life.

You cannot put someone in cotton wool add infinitum. This was an event that could not be predicted. Wake you rabbit.

A news report of the incident follows:

The mother of an 11-year-old boy killed by his father at a cricket ground in Victoria has spoken of her shock, and revealed her estranged partner had a history of mental illness and was the subject of an apprehended violence order (AVO).

Luke Batty was killed in front of horrified onlookers after a cricket training session at the oval in the small town of Tyabb, south-east of Melbourne, on Wednesday evening.

His 54-year-old father Greg was shot by police at the scene and died in hospital early on Thursday morning.

Luke's mother Rosie Batty was at the cricket ground when the tragedy unfolded, after her son asked for "a few more minutes" with his father.

This afternoon she described her "shock" and "disbelief" and told reporters her estranged partner Greg was a man who loved his son but had suffered from an undiagnosed mental illness for two decades.

"Luke was nearly as tall as me. He was sensitive. He enjoyed his footy, he enjoyed his cricket," she said.




Luke was nearly as tall as me. He was effervescent, he was funny. He wasn't the best scholar but he was intelligent.

Rosie Batty



"He was effervescent, he was funny. He wasn't the best scholar but he was intelligent. He enjoyed his school."

She says Luke loved his father and "felt pain" because he knew he was struggling.

"He was a little boy in a growing body that felt pain and sadness and fear for his mum, and he always believed he would be safe with his dad," she said.

"[I told him] 'you'll always love your dad. You won't always like what they do or say, but you'll always love your dad, and he'll always love you'."

Comment Red Baron: NO ONE could have predicted this turn of events. Things happen in life, it is just the way it is.
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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:33am by red baron »  
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #67 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:51am
 
ian wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:29pm:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am:
[
you need to get past the idea that "alpha males teaching respect to beta males" is something that they get some sort of cheap thrills out of.
you could easily get the right sort of guys, with a spirit of contribution, encouragement and challenge to rehabilitate beta male criminals. (and believe me, most of them would have other  things to do)

a man who, for instance, is violent to a woman is the very worst type of beta male. he needs to be treated "proactively' and assisted to be a real man, by real men.

he does not need to be treated 'reactively' and imprisoned and taught to be even more bitter, twisted, and emotionally chaotic

yes, good points.


Ian, i am a keen student of nature.
I am a keen student of "evolutionary pressure"
Maria asked what century i am from.
i like to think of myself as grounded in "reality" and so one needs to take a very very very long look at the human species to understand how we got to where we are.
i am certainly not grounded in the 1960's hippie movement and all the upheaval that we have seen since.
has there been enough "evolutionary pressure ' on all this upheaval to see if it will stand the test of time?? Wink Wink

Things happen in nature a certain way for very good reasons.
Alpha males are innate leaders.
through 100's of generations of man/woman kind, this has been the response of the evolutionary pressure.
Alpha males keep order amongst the betas.
through hundreds of generations this has been the case.
Alpha males and leading females begin a fairly strict disciplinary process , virtually from birth in nature and certainly from pre pubescense in humans.

bad behaviour amongst "the young males" is simply extinguished.
banishment from the tribe meant almost certain death.


since 1965, we have (for no good scientific reason) decided that bad behaviour in young delta males should be dealt with by low ranking females with a new and novel approach...talk therapies and counselling, trying to use logic to control emotions.
This wont work.

Emotional mastery must be learnt by the individual himself and he must learn it as part of the natural social conditioning that his brain has adapted to over 100's of generations.

An emotional horse will not respond to love and tenderness and sweet platitudes. it must learn the hard lesson that it has to "control its own emotions" . Only then is it safe.  To allow emotions (like anger , violence, etc) to go uncorrected is just insane and when pressure is applied (say when hot buttons are pushed) if the lessons have not been learnt ....disaster will occur.
this is what is happening.
Alpha males are not manning up to their responsibilities to teach this emotional mastery to young men and only alpha males can teach it  Wink
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mothra
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #68 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 4:32am
 
... wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:45am:
you're wasting your time - No matter how much you try to explain it, a woman just isn't going to be able to understand the world of men.  We handle business.

The rise of the beta male coincides with the disappearance of the father, because at the fundamental level, a woman can not teach a boy to be a man. 

Of course, once these boys grow to become adults, It becomes their fault that they never got the guidance they needed to become good men, and "something must be done!!!!"





Yet countless single mothers have raised very fine male children.

Countless single mothers are in the process of raising very fine male children.

Needs dictate outcome.
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #69 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 4:35am
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:21am:
Youre probably right Honky.
I keep hoping for that break thru moment when some of the women (mothra, pansi, gweg) will have a eureka moment.
One tries to be very persistent.
i like to view interacting with mothra as exercising my "will power " muscle.
Like going for a jog, you dont "really" enjoy it, but you enjoy the mastery of "never giving in to the temptation to just give up" Wink






No he's not ... and no you're not.

Keep exercising that muscle Horse Boy. It still needs some work.
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #70 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 5:13am
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:51am:
ian wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:29pm:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am:
[
you need to get past the idea that "alpha males teaching respect to beta males" is something that they get some sort of cheap thrills out of.
you could easily get the right sort of guys, with a spirit of contribution, encouragement and challenge to rehabilitate beta male criminals. (and believe me, most of them would have other  things to do)

a man who, for instance, is violent to a woman is the very worst type of beta male. he needs to be treated "proactively' and assisted to be a real man, by real men.

he does not need to be treated 'reactively' and imprisoned and taught to be even more bitter, twisted, and emotionally chaotic

yes, good points.


Ian, i am a keen student of nature.
,snip>


No problem with nature, except when you foolishly think it has a place in society.

Let me keep it simple for you.  The police are the thin blue line keeping nature and society apart.  Those who cross the line, thinking they are alpha males teaching a lesson, are locked up.

You like the jungle the go back to it.   You like the benefits if a social existence then you should work with that.
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #71 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 6:48am
 
random wrote on Feb 5th, 2016 at 5:13am:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:51am:
ian wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:29pm:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am:
[
you need to get past the idea that "alpha males teaching respect to beta males" is something that they get some sort of cheap thrills out of.
you could easily get the right sort of guys, with a spirit of contribution, encouragement and challenge to rehabilitate beta male criminals. (and believe me, most of them would have other  things to do)

a man who, for instance, is violent to a woman is the very worst type of beta male. he needs to be treated "proactively' and assisted to be a real man, by real men.

he does not need to be treated 'reactively' and imprisoned and taught to be even more bitter, twisted, and emotionally chaotic

yes, good points.


Ian, i am a keen student of nature.
,snip>


No problem with nature, except when you foolishly think it has a place in society.

Let me keep it simple for you.  The police are the thin blue line keeping nature and society apart.  Those who cross the line, thinking they are alpha males teaching a lesson, are locked up.

You like the jungle the go back to it.   You like the benefits if a social existence then you should work with that.



i dont think there ARE benefits of social existence in terms of what we should be focusing on (our own personal growth).
the over governed, over regulated, over comfortable existence has put most people in a Durrrrrr state.
They are completely divorced from the universal principles which exist.
They seek comfort, they expect to live in a "me,me,me" paradim.
They are like a black hole, always in scarcity, always with themselves and their personal comfort as there only concern.
They do not realise  the universal principles of life .
They want society to make it all comfortable for them.
They do not realise that they should not be like a black hole , but rather like a star, radiating out energy. giving of themselves and contributing.


A man 3000 years ago, running round the savana, had to become in tune with the universal principles.
He was lucky in that he had to accept the world as it is and this was his passage to adulthood.

All people deserve the right to have this passage to adulthood.
they deserve the right to face adversity, accept adversity and get better thru adversity.

modern society will have none of this.
people expect all adversity to be taken away by society and by government.
Thus there is no growth, there is no getting better, there is only getting Bitter.

there is only the narrative of a child.

Help me.
Please help me.
If i complain long enough will somebody help me.
My mummy always used to help me when i had a problem (now i expect the government and society to fill this role til my death Wink).
Are you my mummy?

I have learned helplessness.
If i write a cry baby narrative , will somebody help me.
If i play the victim, will somebody help me.

There is no growth.
There is only misery, once you depart from the universal laws, there is only suffering.

Why do you think we have record obesity, record depression, record anxiety, record relationship breakdown......because we have gone against the universal laws that govern how we become an adult
How we become masculine or feminine.
No police force or government law will fix this for you my friend  Wink

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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #72 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 8:11am
 
I am not your friend.  I interpret the use of that term as condescending, so keep using it if that's how you want to appear.

Your narrative conveniently ignores the fact that tribal societies require conformance the their lore, or get speared, or exiled.  Even herd animals have societies.  You are misguided and simplistic.

Forget the personal growth thing too, that's bullshit invented by sky fairy folk to demand conformance.
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #73 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 9:19am
 
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2016 at 4:32am:
... wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:45am:
you're wasting your time - No matter how much you try to explain it, a woman just isn't going to be able to understand the world of men.  We handle business.

The rise of the beta male coincides with the disappearance of the father, because at the fundamental level, a woman can not teach a boy to be a man. 

Of course, once these boys grow to become adults, It becomes their fault that they never got the guidance they needed to become good men, and "something must be done!!!!"





Yet countless single mothers have raised very fine male children.

Countless single mothers are in the process of raising very fine male children.

Needs dictate outcome.


You need to quit the reflexive arguments - The principle underpinning it cannot even be disputed.

One cannot teach what one does not know.

A woman teaching a boy to be a man is like a ballerina teaching someone to box.  That is not to say there is nothing to learn from the ballerina, but it won't make you a boxer.   

Like aqua, I too secretly hope for the "eureka" moment with my heart, even though my head tells me it's not going to happen.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rosie Batty was bought to prevent critisism
Reply #74 - Feb 5th, 2016 at 9:54am
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 5th, 2016 at 6:48am:
random wrote on Feb 5th, 2016 at 5:13am:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:51am:
ian wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:29pm:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:26am:
[
you need to get past the idea that "alpha males teaching respect to beta males" is something that they get some sort of cheap thrills out of.
you could easily get the right sort of guys, with a spirit of contribution, encouragement and challenge to rehabilitate beta male criminals. (and believe me, most of them would have other  things to do)

a man who, for instance, is violent to a woman is the very worst type of beta male. he needs to be treated "proactively' and assisted to be a real man, by real men.

he does not need to be treated 'reactively' and imprisoned and taught to be even more bitter, twisted, and emotionally chaotic

yes, good points.


Ian, i am a keen student of nature.
,snip>


No problem with nature, except when you foolishly think it has a place in society.

Let me keep it simple for you.  The police are the thin blue line keeping nature and society apart.  Those who cross the line, thinking they are alpha males teaching a lesson, are locked up.

You like the jungle the go back to it.   You like the benefits if a social existence then you should work with that.



i dont think ...



Indeed.
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