Australian Politics Forum - The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase

Dnarever

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #75 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:16pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:14pm:

we are in Debt..

Labor put us in this Massive Debt..

Labor are keeping us in Debt by blocking savings..

this will continue till the next election when hopefully we get a clear winner in government and in the senate..

Labor threw Billions of Dollars into the Budget knowing we couldn't afford it and expecting to lose the last election so as to make the next government look bad..

there was so much waste in the last Labor government it was just sickening and still is..

the filthy immigrants are costing us 100 Million dollars a year and will continue to rise.. another Labor Rippa..

so anyways..

to pay back your debts you either raise taxes or cut all of Labors irresponsible spending...

but it seems that the Leftard don't want any cuts.. or.. any tax increases..

and that's why most people know that the leftist is mentally handicapped.. durr Cheesy

Labor put us in this Massive Debt?

We've had more than a doubling of the debt since the Libbos came to power.

Get your facts straight & apologise to all the readers.

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Do you want to try again oh gullible one?

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:13am by Dnarever »

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Sir lastnail

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #76 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:03am

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:32pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:01pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:49am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:19am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:45am:

It is ironic that every poster here seems to think this is a bad result. Given that a small majority oppose it at this stage is a very good result! New taxes are never going to be popular. There will always be a hard core of people who would oppose new taxes no matter what else is included. But this figure of 54% opposition comes without and detail on the compensation packages. The Howard GST was also quite unpopular but improved markedly once the huge reductions in income tax and the large increases in welfare payments were announced.

The Liberals would be heartened by this result. With a good marketing campaign, they should be easily able to improve that by 10-15 points.

One of the most important things to be noted is that the polls also show government support solid at 53/47 with a small INCREASE in their vote. It is hardly bad news for the GST increase.

a good result? nice try Grin

37 % are in favour, about the same percentage of die hard libs like you that would support the libs no matter what they proposed.

The Liberals would be heartened by this result. With a good marketing campaign, they should be easily able to improve that by 10-15 points.

What do you think it will do to public opinion when people work out that they will be something like $5,000 worse off ???

I would expect that these numbers will change drastically the other way when it goes from being theoretical to actual money coming out of peoples pockets.

Because they won't be. Just as with the original GST implementation, most people are no worse of and some better off. It will be the same here. You do seem to have awful difficulty with the concept of compensation. By the polls it would appear most others do not have your blind-eye.

Talk about compensation is the worst off among us. The average working guy is looking at paying 15% GST with no compensation at all.

You know this because you are the only person not in Federal Cabinet to know the details of a GST compensation package that by all reports, hasnt even been decided on yet? Have you any idea just how stupid this makes you sound?

You realise that in your previous post you had made the same type of statement about the compensation covering everyone and being no worse off, You know this because you are the only person not in Federal Cabinet to know the details of a GST compensation.

Everybody (but you apparently) knows there will be a compensation package. What it will be exactly is of course unknown since we do not even know the model of the 15% GST. You seem pathologically incapable of accepting the existence of a GST compensation package for reasons that escape me and everyone else. When has there EVER been a massive increase in one kind of taxation without a compensatory reduction in another? NEVER. why would this be any different.

On a side note, it is interesting psychologically as to where your pathological inability to accept known facts comes from.

Perhaps another one of Howards first home buyers grant that just served to push up house prices. I don't thiunk anyone wants to see that again except for the real estate scumbags.

How about forgetting about the GST increases and go for the forbidden topic of negative gearing and CGT discounts on property deals. After all isn't it still all on the table ?

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Wolseley

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #77 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:15am

Quote:

The majority of voters say ‘No’ to proposed GST increase

They were probably asked a loaded question such as "Would you support a rise in GST to 15%?" rather than being asked if they would support a rise in GST with compensation where it was needed. Do we know what the actual wording of the question was?

There was an article in yesterday's SMH, in which Mike Baird put forward a case for an increase to 15% in GST, with compensation for low income groups, and estimating the amount of revenue generated and the cost of the compensation.

Then again, we may not have to worry about it as, according to news.com, it's not going to happen in our lifetimes:
Quote:

February 1, 20165.

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mariacostel

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #78 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:16pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:14pm:

we are in Debt..

Labor put us in this Massive Debt..

Labor are keeping us in Debt by blocking savings..

this will continue till the next election when hopefully we get a clear winner in government and in the senate..

Labor threw Billions of Dollars into the Budget knowing we couldn't afford it and expecting to lose the last election so as to make the next government look bad..

there was so much waste in the last Labor government it was just sickening and still is..

the filthy immigrants are costing us 100 Million dollars a year and will continue to rise.. another Labor Rippa..

so anyways..

to pay back your debts you either raise taxes or cut all of Labors irresponsible spending...

but it seems that the Leftard don't want any cuts.. or.. any tax increases..

and that's why most people know that the leftist is mentally handicapped.. durr Cheesy

Labor put us in this Massive Debt?

We've had more than a doubling of the debt since the Libbos came to power.

Get your facts straight & apologise to all the readers.

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Do you want to try again oh gullible one?

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #79 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 4:45pm Morgan shows consumer confidence down to 112.2. Not a good time for a GST increase.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #80 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:50pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:32pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:17pm:

What's the point of a compensation package - that's taking money out and giving it back again - even if it is a lesser amount.

Assuming it is to compensate to the less well off (more likely like most lib policies it will compensate the more well off to a larger degree), it shows that the govt recognises how blunt an instrument this is.

Now how about target other areas of taxation say like super?

That has been answered earlier in the thread. Even if revenue neutral, there are different deadweight losses associated with the assortment of taxation regimes.

Deadweight loss of GST = 8c per dollar, income tax = 21c per dollar, company tax = 40c per dollar.

Not particularly hard to see where the push is coming from. Stuff all to do with tax breaks for the rich.

Point is - it's shifting the burden of taxation onto those who have already paid income tax on their gross and away from companies that pay tax on net income..... this dramatically skews your figures.... companies no way pay 40% tax on gross earnings.... and they end up paying considerably less than 21% on that, and if they were subjected to the same income tax regime as Josephine Bloggotovski - they would be paying top marginal rate.......

I will allow that you are simply mis-stating your view..... a simple error.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #81 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:53pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:16pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:14pm:

we are in Debt..

Labor put us in this Massive Debt..

Labor are keeping us in Debt by blocking savings..

this will continue till the next election when hopefully we get a clear winner in government and in the senate..

Labor threw Billions of Dollars into the Budget knowing we couldn't afford it and expecting to lose the last election so as to make the next government look bad..

there was so much waste in the last Labor government it was just sickening and still is..

the filthy immigrants are costing us 100 Million dollars a year and will continue to rise.. another Labor Rippa..

so anyways..

to pay back your debts you either raise taxes or cut all of Labors irresponsible spending...

but it seems that the Leftard don't want any cuts.. or.. any tax increases..

and that's why most people know that the leftist is mentally handicapped.. durr Cheesy

Labor put us in this Massive Debt?

We've had more than a doubling of the debt since the Libbos came to power.

Get your facts straight & apologise to all the readers.

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Do you want to try again oh gullible one?

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

.. and this after Howard and Co stripped the revenue garnering strands out of the Budget by selling them off.... makes a world of difference right there... Howard handed Labor a poisoned chalice...... from which they had no choice but to drink.... now it's ToJo/Turnbull's turn to reap what that wee waste of space created for us all....

They are merely reaping what their Great Guru sowed......

BOTR....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Dnarever

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #82 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years

If you go back 6 you will find that the first was a surplus budget.

was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

No there wasn't.

The libs have had TWO budgets, not three.

As stated the third figure is as stated in this years MYEFO and it is a conservative number it will likely be a higher debt in the final outcome.

as there was $48B $30B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

Funny what a Global financial crisis will do to a small saving.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #83 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:36pm Well after privatising medibank, wonder what's next?
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mariacostel

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #84 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:44pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years

If you go back 6 you will find that the first was a surplus budget.

was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

No there wasn't.

The libs have had TWO budgets, not three.

As stated the third figure is as stated in this years MYEFO and it is a conservative number it will likely be a higher debt in the final outcome.

as there was $48B $30B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

Funny what a Global financial crisis will do to a small saving.

Especially when they also has a massive mining boom at the same time. What about now?

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #85 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:24pm Let's sell gold from the gold reserve...whoops already did that at bargain basement prices...
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #86 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:35pm mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:44pm: Especially when they also has a massive mining boom at the same time. lets just pretend that every other industry didn't collapse then
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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #87 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:49pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 6:50pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:32pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:17pm:

What's the point of a compensation package - that's taking money out and giving it back again - even if it is a lesser amount.

Assuming it is to compensate to the less well off (more likely like most lib policies it will compensate the more well off to a larger degree), it shows that the govt recognises how blunt an instrument this is.

Now how about target other areas of taxation say like super?

That has been answered earlier in the thread. Even if revenue neutral, there are different deadweight losses associated with the assortment of taxation regimes.

Deadweight loss of GST = 8c per dollar, income tax = 21c per dollar, company tax = 40c per dollar.

Not particularly hard to see where the push is coming from. Stuff all to do with tax breaks for the rich.

Point is - it's shifting the burden of taxation onto those who have already paid income tax on their gross and away from companies that pay tax on net income..... this dramatically skews your figures.... companies no way pay 40% tax on gross earnings.... and they end up paying considerably less than 21% on that, and if they were subjected to the same income tax regime as Josephine Bloggotovski - they would be paying top marginal rate.......

I will allow that you are simply mis-stating your view..... a simple error.....

Grapples, It seems that you are confused. Where did you get the figures of 40% and 21% respectively. Have you mistaken the deadweight losses for tax obligations ? They are not the same thing. Get yourself a decent macro textbook or google "deadweight losses" or "marginal excess burden".

By the way, companies pay tax on gross profit, not gross earnings. A point that escapes many around here. I graciously forgive your simple error.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #88 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:32pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:44pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years

If you go back 6 you will find that the first was a surplus budget.

was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

No there wasn't.

The libs have had TWO budgets, not three.

As stated the third figure is as stated in this years MYEFO and it is a conservative number it will likely be a higher debt in the final outcome.

as there was $48B $30B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

Funny what a Global financial crisis will do to a small saving.

Especially when they also has a massive mining boom at the same time. What about now?

The Howard government had the benefit of a resources boon from around 2002 and they squandered it, During the Labor period the GFC absolutely swamped the resources industry.

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #89 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:51pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:44pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 11:02am:

The deficit was doubled the debt wasn't. Actually you are both wrong.

The Net debt in 2013 was $153B (from final budget outcomes)

The expected net Debt this year is $278 B. (from MYEFO)

So bobby, to double the debt would require annual deficits of $140B each year.

Obviously to doubt a net debt of $150 Billion it would require 1 deficit of $150B or 3 of $50B.

Still to increase net debt to $278 B is a really good effort.

The Liberals took a $17B deficit and have averages $43B deficit per year over 3 years.

So they have averaged more than double the deficit they inherited every year in power.

You just get so much wrong, it is quite extraordinary. The libs have had TWO budgets, not three. THe $17B deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years and artificially created by putting payments forward into the first Liberal budget year.

And what you need to also remember is that the net debt increase under Labor was $200B as there was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

deficit was actually $18B and was by far the smallest deficit of the 6 labor years

If you go back 6 you will find that the first was a surplus budget.

was $48B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

No there wasn't.

The libs have had TWO budgets, not three.

As stated the third figure is as stated in this years MYEFO and it is a conservative number it will likely be a higher debt in the final outcome.

as there was $48B $30B in cash in the bank under Howard and that is now all gone.

Funny what a Global financial crisis will do to a small saving.

Especially when they also has a massive mining boom at the same time. What about now?

Another dick measuring exercise. My surplus is bigger than yours. Your deficit is bigger than mine yadda yadda yadda.

For the record, the 2007-08 net financial balance was $19.754 billion. It's all on the public record in the budget historical data.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2015-16/content/overview/html/overview-35.htm

It's not even hard to see why it vanished. If one cares to look at the data you will find that over the last decade and a half spending hasn't changed an awful lot being within a percentage point of 25% of GDP. Revenue on the other hand collapsed from a high of 25.9% down to a low in 2010-11 of 21.5%. There's your deficit right there.

All the whinging about debt levels that are minor compared to the size of the economy and entirely manageable distracts from the more important issues like really shithouse total factor productivity performance. This does far more harm to real wages growth than any deficit ever will but nary a mention is heard.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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