Australian Politics Forum - The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase

John Smith

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #150 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:34am

crocodile wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Because there's nothing to see. Corporate tax contributions to total government revenue have been steadily increasing since the early 80s. 10% in 1983 to the 20 something % today.

that increase is because companies that in the 80's used to make $1m profit, are now making $100m profit. They are paying a little more total tax (less in % terms) for a hell of a lot more profit.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #151 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:37am

When the economy is slow how can you say the GST doesn’t affect consumption? Maybe when the economy is doing well the GST has less effect.

But if you tax consumption how can you not expect consumption not to decrease by the amount of the tax?

With the Libs’ neocon ideology there will be less and less in the middleclass, more in the class being squeezed by austerity to fund the lifestyle of the very rich will mean the GST will decrease consumption even more.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #152 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:49am

If nothing gets done about tax avoidance by multinationals then a higher payroll tax levy is one way to get some money out of them. “A levy on jobs” really? You got 3249 employees, are you really going to think about hiring another skilled employee because you are thinking of payroll tax? Doubt it.

Stamp duty is bad/inefficient maybe but a land tax payable every year is good?

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61245 Here Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #153 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 8:42am stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:22am: Generous to assume he studied economics to know any textbook theory.
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John Smith

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #154 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:00am

A senior Liberal senator says he won't support increasing the GST to 15 per cent.

Senator Ian Macdonald says he is one of the few members of parliament who was around when the 10 per cent GST was introduced in 2000.

"I won't be supporting it, and the main reason is that those of us who were there at the time gave a rolled-gold commitment that we would not be part of any increase beyond 10 per cent," he told ABC television on Sunday.

WOW, a lib who wants to keep his word ... you don't see that very often

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/30754108/we-gave-rolled-gold-gst-promise-senator/

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #155 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:23am

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:34am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Because there's nothing to see. Corporate tax contributions to total government revenue have been steadily increasing since the early 80s. 10% in 1983 to the 20 something % today.

that increase is because companies that in the 80's used to make $1m profit, are now making $100m profit. They are paying a little more total tax (less in % terms) for a hell of a lot more profit.

Really. The return on investment figures for Aussie companies does not support your hypothesis.

If anything, corporate profits since the early 90s are only just above the bond rate. Another wood duck without a clue.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #156 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:29am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:49am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 9:33pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 7:04pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 6:40pm:

Ah, so you can’t refute it! Good to know.

How can company tax be such a heavy deadweight loss when a lot of companies pay little tax anyway?

How can the GST not be a heavy deadweight loss when workers pay it every time they spend some money?

Cute concept, no real–world reality behind it.

Sounds more like you do not understand what a deadweight loss actually is.

I say again:

How can company tax be such a heavy deadweight loss when a lot of companies pay little tax anyway?

Can you address that, now or later, alligator please?

You also blabbered on about taxing retained earnings. Companies are taxed on profits (OK maybe private companies are still penalised for retaining earnings but that doesn’t change anything) not retained earnings.

For projects, new computer system say or new machinery, companies borrow money. Company tax really affects shareholders dividend distributions.

How can company tax be such a heavy deadweight loss when a lot of companies pay little tax anyway?

Croc deals mostly in textbook theory - so if they did happen to accidentally pay some tax it would be a dead weight.

Terribly sorry that it doesn't conform to your utopian view of how the world works. The so called textbook theory is based upon the analysis of real world data rather than the ramblings of the misfits around here.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #157 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:35am

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 6:44am:

Yeah, finds a theory he likes and sticks to it regardless of facts.

I could same about you. The difference is that unlike you I have linked my statements with references from reputable sources. The facts are there for all to see. All you've done is rant. You probably haven't even read any of it for fear that the truth might interfere with your long held views. You are a goose.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #158 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:37am stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:22am: Generous to assume he studied economics to know any textbook theory. Any time you want to argue about the economics of what I've written I'd be happy to oblige. Now put up or piss off.
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crocodile

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #159 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:41am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 8:42am:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:22am:

Generous to assume he studied economics to know any textbook theory.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/04-o...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7196/1963/1600/AusEcDumm.jpg

OK smartarse. If you think what I've written is all tosh you go right ahead and refute all those points with solid material.

Not true because I don't like it is simply not good enough.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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John Smith

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #160 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 10:10am

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:23am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:34am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Because there's nothing to see. Corporate tax contributions to total government revenue have been steadily increasing since the early 80s. 10% in 1983 to the 20 something % today.

that increase is because companies that in the 80's used to make $1m profit, are now making $100m profit. They are paying a little more total tax (less in % terms) for a hell of a lot more profit.

Really. The return on investment figures for Aussie companies does not support your hypothesis.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

If anything, corporate profits since the early 90s are only just above the bond rate. Another wood duck without a clue.

I didn't claim to have a clue I'm just trying to understand your rambling ... if you can't handle people not agreeing with you then perhaps forums aren't the thing for you.

Isn't the ROI on your graph the return to shareholders? If so, what has that to do with profits?

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stunspore

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #161 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 10:39am

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:22am:

Generous to assume he studied economics to know any textbook theory.

Any time you want to argue about the economics of what I've written I'd be happy to oblige. Now put up or piss off.

Sorry, did I offend? I could try and debate, but it seems to mostly be talking to an ostrich with head in the sand sometimes. Or that we don't seem to share values which is reflected in different perspectives. One set of facts, multiple interpretations.

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stunspore

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #162 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 10:40am

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:37am:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 7:22am:

Generous to assume he studied economics to know any textbook theory.

Any time you want to argue about the economics of what I've written I'd be happy to oblige. Now put up or piss off.

Sorry, did I offend? I could try and debate, but it seems to mostly be talking to an ostrich with head in the sand sometimes. Or that we don't seem to share values which is reflected in different perspectives. One set of facts, multiple interpretations.

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 22976 ACT Gender:	Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase Reply #163 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 10:47am The more often one sees Turnbull interviewed and questioned on raising the GST, the more I think its dead in the water.
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Bam

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Re: The Majority Of Voters Say No To GST Increase
Reply #164 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am

crocodile wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 10:55pm:

I say again:

Quote:

How can company tax be such a heavy deadweight loss when a lot of companies pay little tax anyway?

Really, a quick look at the budget shows that corporate taxes make up almost one quarter of the nation's entire federal budget. Now add in all the state's payroll taxes. Stop making stuff up.

An interesting chart that shows the burden of taxation falls predominantly on salary and wage earners.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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