Australian Politics Forum - An Australian republic

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #180 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:28pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

I want a President by popular election.

Our current Head of State isn't elected.

You want our Republic's HOS to be elected by a popular vote, but you have no problem with the current HOS being born into the position.

Why is that?

I don't really understand what you mean by "having no problem" with HOS etc. If you consider Queen Elizabeth the HOS you are stretching a point. She doesn't have any control over Australia legislation. It seems you are nit-picking. The British Crown's part in Australian government has been slowly eroded since 1901. The nominal position that the monarch holds in Australia today is something we have inherited. I don't think accepting that reality is a matter of "having no problem." You can vote for any republic on offer if you wish, but we will only get one shot at it. I will vote for a republic that specifically meets my expectation, none other.

Mr I. Voter, what would we have if "Cosgrove" (the Sovereign) refused to sign off on a piece of legislation?

Continue your train of thought. The Republic issue is complex. Arch republicans just want a republic at any price, and they don't want people to consider the matter too carefully. Not being a constitutional lawyer, I would have thought your "Cosgrove" would need to justify himself legally.

He might say....."Sorry, too busy, I'm going sailing." What then happens? (BTW.............I am no expert, and never have been, on anything to do with the Constitution.)

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Aussie

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #181 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:05pm

Neferti wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:39pm:

I reckon it boils down to a couple of questions. What do we want (assuming the Monarchy is booted, and the Parliamentary position is left unaltered...with a PM etc as we have now?)

1. A purely ceremonial figure-head.
2. A ceremonial figurehead with some declared/clearly defined power to exercise political influence on rare occasions.....and on what rare occasions.

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE

Sheesh! Everyone gets to vote on any change to the Constitution! Baby steps, nappy. One step at a time. Which of # 1 and 2 do you want?

When we get passed that threshold question, there is the next one. How are they appointed/elected.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: An Australian republic Reply #182 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:08pm If other countries are any indication, the first real issue to confront the Republic of Australia will be corruption.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 151020 Gender:	Re: An Australian republic Reply #183 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:09pm issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:08pm: If other countries are any indication, the first real issue to confront the Republic of Australia will be corruption. We already have that, so no big deal.
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John Smith

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #184 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:11pm

Neferti wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:39pm:

I reckon it boils down to a couple of questions. What do we want (assuming the Monarchy is booted, and the Parliamentary position is left unaltered...with a PM etc as we have now?)

1. A purely ceremonial figure-head.
2. A ceremonial figurehead with some declared/clearly defined power to exercise political influence on rare occasions.....and on what rare occasions.

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE

we should first have a vote on republic or not, so that the matter is settled, with the particular model to be voted upon at a later stage.

There's no need to rush it, tie the referendums in with elections if it means we save money. Decide the one question in conjunction with one election, decide on the model at the next one.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #185 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:16pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

Neferti wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:39pm:

I reckon it boils down to a couple of questions. What do we want (assuming the Monarchy is booted, and the Parliamentary position is left unaltered...with a PM etc as we have now?)

1. A purely ceremonial figure-head.
2. A ceremonial figurehead with some declared/clearly defined power to exercise political influence on rare occasions.....and on what rare occasions.

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE

we should first have a vote on republic or not, so that the matter is settled, with the particular model to be voted upon at a later stage.

There's no need to rush it, tie the referendums in with elections if it means we save money. Decide the one question in conjunction with one election, decide on the model at the next one.

Yep, good point.

First, a referendum: "Should Australia become a Republic in 2020?" Simple.

Then (if the answer is 'yes'), Geoffrey Robertson draws up alternative Constitutions.

Then, we vote on the model and Constitution we want.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39722 Gender:	Re: An Australian republic Reply #186 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:18pm Exactly. Baby steps. One careful one after the other. (Dunno about the 'Robertson' idea, but the general, point is on track.)
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issuevoter

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #187 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:19pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

Neferti wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:39pm:

I reckon it boils down to a couple of questions. What do we want (assuming the Monarchy is booted, and the Parliamentary position is left unaltered...with a PM etc as we have now?)

1. A purely ceremonial figure-head.
2. A ceremonial figurehead with some declared/clearly defined power to exercise political influence on rare occasions.....and on what rare occasions.

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE

we should first have a vote on republic or not, so that the matter is settled with the particular model to be voted upon at a later stage.

There's no need to rush it, tie the referendums in with elections if it means we save money. Decide the one question in conjunction with one election, decide on the model at the next one.

If a "no" vote did not settle the matter last time, why should it now? If we are to have more, why should there not be further referendums after an affirmative one?

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John Smith

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #188 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:08pm:

If other countries are any indication, the first real issue to confront the Republic of Australia will be corruption.

I agree, our own head of state should have special powers to stop the libs ..... as it is, all the lib leaders (with turncoat being the first not to.... although the way he's going you can probably expect him to reverse his position on this too) kiss the queens arse so the GG lets them get away with murder

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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skippy.

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #189 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:21pm

The push will grow once Lizzy kicks the bucket.
Chuck is not too popular.
I'd like to see a break down of figures but I suspect most monarchists, not all, are baby boomers or older.
The monarchists would prefer it was rushed so it failed again like Howard set it up to do.
Slow and steady wins the race cross the T and dot the I. Better to spend years creating the right model than years living with a disaster. That is why it should not be rushed and in particular not go to the people again for a vote until it is a model that will appeal. The monarchists loved the Howard model as he set it up to fail.

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Neferti

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #190 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:21pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:05pm:

Neferti wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:39pm:

I reckon it boils down to a couple of questions. What do we want (assuming the Monarchy is booted, and the Parliamentary position is left unaltered...with a PM etc as we have now?)

1. A purely ceremonial figure-head.
2. A ceremonial figurehead with some declared/clearly defined power to exercise political influence on rare occasions.....and on what rare occasions.

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE

Sheesh! Everyone gets to vote on any change to the Constitution! Baby steps, nappy. One step at a time. Which of # 1 and 2 do you want?

When we get passed that threshold question, there is the next one. How are they appointed/elected.

Read what I said ... ALL OF IT .. or at least get your brain into gear before hitting the keyboard and quoting me out of context ...... unbelievable. Roll Eyes

Here is what I actually said!

Quote:

WRONG. Totally. WRONG. IF Australia is to become a REPUBLIC (and thus getting rid of the Monarchy) we want to be able to VOTE FOR OUR LEADER ... if he/she is called a President. No Prime Minister ... just a PRESIDENT ... along the same lines as the USA, minus the hoopla and massive money and years of "electioneering". Aussies would NEVER put up with political "wanna be" people going on and on for years trying to get our vote ...... 6 weeks is too long for that crap.

So. NO Prime Minister ... just a PRESIDENT ... with the power of a PM/GG at the moment. Same type of Government ... HoR and Senate ... MPs and so forth. Presidential term 4 years x 2. So we would end up with a Liberal PRESIDENT for 4 years, initiallly, then maybe an ALP President for 4 years ..... etcetera.

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John Smith

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #191 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:21pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:19pm:

If a "no" vote did not settle the matter last time, why should it now

because last time a lot of the 'no's' were against the model put forward at the time, not against becoming a republic. Even I voted against the last model, and I'd like nothing better than to ditch the queen.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 151020 Gender:	Re: An Australian republic Reply #192 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:21pm Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:18pm: Exactly. Baby steps. One careful one after the other. (Dunno about the 'Robertson' idea, but the general, point is on track.) Well, we could get Kathy Lette
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39722 Gender:	Re: An Australian republic Reply #193 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:22pm Quote: If a "no" vote did not settle the matter last time, why should it now? Because Hayseed deliberately sabotaged it with something way beyond....."Should Australia become a republic?"
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skippy.

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Re: An Australian republic
Reply #194 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:23pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 5:19pm:

If a "no" vote did not settle the matter last time, why should it now

because last time a lot of the 'no's' were against the model put forward at the time, not against becoming a republic. Even I voted against the last model, and I'd like nothing better than to ditch the queen.

Ditto. The last one was set up to fail intentionly by Howard. I too voted no but I am a republican.

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Poll
Question: Do you support a republic
Yes 13 (36.1%) No 14 (38.9%) Yes, but with conditions 9 (25.0%) No because the coins cost too much to change 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 36 « Created by: skippy. on: Jan 26^th, 2016 at 9:06am »