Australian Politics Forum - Detrimental effects of compulsory voting

John Smith

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #90 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:44am

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:20pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:17pm:

Compulsory voting is absolutely retarded.
I have always believed this. There is a reason pretty much every other country in the western world doesn't do it.

there is a reason why pretty much absolutely every other country ranks below Australia (with the exception of Norway) when ranking best countries to live in Cheesy

And compulsory voting has absolutely nothing to do with it and only a cretin would imply it did.

The only reason we have compulsory voting is there is free money for politicians, the more people forced to vote the more chance of making free money for yourself or your arty.

It is a scam and you cretins are too stupid to realise your are being done over.

yeah, I know bigol ... it's so hard for you to go and vote once every 4 yrs. I mean, you have to remember your name when you get to the booth so they can tick it off. How dare they Cheesy

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Dnarever

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #91 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:48am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am:

the fine is for not turning up at the polling booth and having your name ticked off.. there is no penalty for not voting.

In practical terms for most people you are correct. However it is mandatory to vote and there have been a few instances where people not voting have been fined. This has primarily been when someone has announced that they didn't vote.

The reason you can mark your name off and not vote is because you can get away with it not because it is allowed, if caught you would be fined for not voting. It is just that it is almost impossible to get caught if you don't admit to it.

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Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #92 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:50am

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

yeah, I know bigol ... it's so hard for you to go and vote once every 4 yrs. I mean, you have to remember your name when you get to the booth so they can tick it off. How dare they

And it takes the threat of a fine to get you off your arse to do anything, hey John

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #93 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:51am

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:20pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:17pm:

Compulsory voting is absolutely retarded.
I have always believed this. There is a reason pretty much every other country in the western world doesn't do it.

there is a reason why pretty much absolutely every other country ranks below Australia (with the exception of Norway) when ranking best countries to live in Cheesy

And compulsory voting has absolutely nothing to do with it and only a cretin would imply it did.

The only reason we have compulsory voting is there is free money for politicians, the more people forced to vote the more chance of making free money for yourself or your arty.

It is a scam and you cretins are too stupid to realise your are being done over.

yeah, I know bigol ... it's so hard for you to go and vote once every 4 yrs. I mean, you have to remember your name when you get to the booth so they can tick it off. How dare they Cheesy

For once, I agree. It's not a hard thing to do. You don't even need to show ID, which is stupid. You can even vote more than once, which is also stupid. But there are many people living under dictators around the world who'd love to take part in a free and fair election, just like those that we're forced to spend a few minutes every few years taking part in. I don't see voting so much as being a right as an obligation and it's an obligation I'm happy to carry out.

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John Smith

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #94 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:52am

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:50am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

yeah, I know bigol ... it's so hard for you to go and vote once every 4 yrs. I mean, you have to remember your name when you get to the booth so they can tick it off. How dare they

And it takes the threat of a fine to get you off your arse to do anything, hey John

really? and you base that on?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #95 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am:

the fine is for not turning up at the polling booth and having your name ticked off.. there is no penalty for not voting.

In practical terms for most people you are correct. However it is mandatory to vote and there have been a few instances where people not voting have been fined. This has primarily been when someone has announced that they didn't vote.

The reason you can mark your name off and not vote is because you can get away with it not because it is allowed, if caught you would be fined for not voting. It is just that it is almost impossible to get caught if you don't admit to it.

Online voting would eliminate this. It would also eliminate the incidence of voting multiple times.

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John Smith

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #96 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:55am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am:

the fine is for not turning up at the polling booth and having your name ticked off.. there is no penalty for not voting.

In practical terms for most people you are correct. However it is mandatory to vote and there have been a few instances where people not voting have been fined. This has primarily been when someone has announced that they didn't vote.

The reason you can mark your name off and not vote is because you can get away with it not because it is allowed, if caught you would be fined for not voting. It is just that it is almost impossible to get caught if you don't admit to it.

Online voting would eliminate this. It would also eliminate the incidence of voting multiple times.

it's not secure enough yet to go online. we'll get there one day, but we aren't there yet. A good hacker will be able to get in and cast as many votes as they like.

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BigOl64

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #97 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:56am

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:44am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:20pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:17pm:

Compulsory voting is absolutely retarded.
I have always believed this. There is a reason pretty much every other country in the western world doesn't do it.

there is a reason why pretty much absolutely every other country ranks below Australia (with the exception of Norway) when ranking best countries to live in Cheesy

And compulsory voting has absolutely nothing to do with it and only a cretin would imply it did.

The only reason we have compulsory voting is there is free money for politicians, the more people forced to vote the more chance of making free money for yourself or your arty.

It is a scam and you cretins are too stupid to realise your are being done over.

yeah, I know bigol ... it's so hard for you to go and vote once every 4 yrs. I mean, you have to remember your name when you get to the booth so they can tick it off. How dare they Cheesy

Only you could conceive that the only reason people don't vote was due to complexity of carrying out this task. Grin

If you and the rest of your Downie mates can tick a box when told to by the government, then 'difficulty' isn't the issue now is it?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #98 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:57am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 6:57am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:33pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer ...

I couldn't care less what you believe, but I've scrutinised at at least six elections (state and federal).

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

... you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks"...

What I said, to correct you, is that donkey votes and informal votes are not the same thing.

Donkey votes are not regarded as informal.

WRONG!!!

A donkey vote is one that numbers all boxes in sequential order, either from top to bottom or bottom to top.

They are perfectly legitimate, and they are not put aside as informal - they are included in the tally.

You got it wrong. Time to move on.

No, I'm 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

They are completely legitimate, and they are included in the final tally.

"Definition of a donkey vote: A donkey vote occurs when a voter numbers every box on the ballot paper in order from top to bottom, without regard to the logic of the preferences. In some cases, a voter might start at the bottom of the ballot paper and number them in order to the top.

"A DONKEY VOTE IS A FORMAL VOTE. IT WILL BE COUNTED AND IT WILL GO TO WHOEVER IS MARKED NUMBER 1."

http://australianpolitics.com/2013/09/04/what-happens-to-donkey-votes.html

"A vote is regarded as informal if the ballot paper has not been completed properly. Informal ballot papers are not counted towards any candidate but are set aside.

"According to section 268 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act (1918), a vote is informal if:

"the ballot paper is not marked at all

"the ballot paper does not have the official mark and has not been initialled by the polling official, and the ballot paper is not authentic in the opinion of the Divisional Returning Officer (DRO)

"the ballot paper has writing on it which identifies the voter
in the case of an absent vote, the ballot paper is not contained in the declaration envelope

"the voter has not completed a full preferential vote. There are savings measures to keep formal some ballot papers marked incompletely or incorrectly."

"Donkey vote

"A ballot paper marked 1, 2, 3, 4 straight down (or up) a ballot paper."

http://www.aec.gov.au/footer/Glossary.htm

And, from Antony Green:

"The Sustainable Population Party polled just 0.9% of the vote but delivered a remarkable 72.5% of preferences to Labor, this high flow from a low vote largely due to the donkey vote."

"The fact that Liberal Andrew Hastie is higher on the ballot paper than Labor's Matt Keogh gives Hastie a narrow advantage by the donkey vote, but the advantage is unchanged on the 2013 election when Don Randall drew top spot on the ballot.

"So the donkey vote favours the Liberal Party in Canning, but it is neutral in its impact on the swing needed compared to the 2013 election because the Liberal Party had the donkey vote advantage in 2013 and again in 2015."

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2015/09/preferences-donkey-votes-and-the-can...

Yeah, you're still wrong and just digging yourself a deeper hole. Now try finding a way out of it.

I am 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

If you think otherwise, you'll need to take it up with the AEC.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #99 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:02am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am:

the fine is for not turning up at the polling booth and having your name ticked off.. there is no penalty for not voting.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states: "It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election".

Under the Electoral Act, the actual duty of the elector is to attend a polling place, have their name marked off the certified list, receive a ballot paper and take it to an individual voting booth, mark it, fold the ballot paper and place it in the ballot box.

It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions:

High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380

Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807

High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271

Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte

Krosch [1974] QdR 107

ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13

http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/index.htm

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BigOl64

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #100 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:05am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:57am:

I am 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

If you think otherwise, you'll need to take it up with the AEC.

This is the only time I will ever agree with you. Marking your ballot from the top, down is not invalid, just lazy.

I cast a donkey vote in my very first election and labor got in, so I never did that again, lesson learned.

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Dnarever

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #101 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:11am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:57am:

I am 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

If you think otherwise, you'll need to take it up with the AEC.

Yes you are right.

It would not be possible to differentiate between a donkey vote and someone who really wanted to vote that way. There are instances where voting sequentially 1 to 5 say down the list would be the desired vote.

I recall once seeing it as the recommended vote from a major party at the election booth.

It would be a neat trick if say placing a legitimate vote for the Liberals turned out to be a donkey vote.

Anyway in electorates like Warringah you actually have the opportunity to vote for a donkey.

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Dnarever

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #102 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:14am

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:57am:

I am 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

If you think otherwise, you'll need to take it up with the AEC.

This is the only time I will ever agree with you. Marking your ballot from the top, down is not invalid, just lazy.

I cast a donkey vote in my very first election and labor got in, so I never did that again, lesson learned.

It is a fact that the record number of informal votes seen Tony Abbott elected.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #103 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:56am: Only you could conceive that the only reason people don't vote was due to complexity of carrying out this task no, I'm sure others have come to realise that about you too!
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Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #104 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:51am:

I don't see voting so much as being a right as an obligation and it's an obligation I'm happy to carry out.

There's nothing wrong with that and I'm guessing you would feel the same if voting was voluntary, would I be right ? What we need to do is to get everyone to be just as enthusiastic as you but it won't be done by continuing compulsory voting which only causes resentment, not a good way going forward if you ask me. Only the Libs and Labs would want to keep us in servitude in the 21st century, they find it easy to misuse power, they misuse it because they can, all they're doing is administering cowards punches

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:21am by Bias_2012 »

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