Australian Politics Forum - Detrimental effects of compulsory voting

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39708 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #45 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:21pm Mr Peccary: Quote: Donkey votes are not regarded as informal. Mr Armpit: Quote: WRONG!!! Would you care to explain why Mr Armpit?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #46 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:33pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer ...

I couldn't care less what you believe, but I've scrutinised at at least six elections (state and federal).

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

... you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks"...

What I said, to correct you, is that donkey votes and informal votes are not the same thing.

Donkey votes are not regarded as informal.

WRONG!!!

A donkey vote is one that numbers all boxes in sequential order, either from top to bottom or bottom to top.

They are perfectly legitimate, and they are not put aside as informal - they are included in the tally.

You got it wrong. Time to move on.

No, I'm 100% correct.

Donkey votes are not informal votes.

They are completely legitimate, and they are included in the final tally.

"Definition of a donkey vote: A donkey vote occurs when a voter numbers every box on the ballot paper in order from top to bottom, without regard to the logic of the preferences. In some cases, a voter might start at the bottom of the ballot paper and number them in order to the top.

"A DONKEY VOTE IS A FORMAL VOTE. IT WILL BE COUNTED AND IT WILL GO TO WHOEVER IS MARKED NUMBER 1."

http://australianpolitics.com/2013/09/04/what-happens-to-donkey-votes.html

"A vote is regarded as informal if the ballot paper has not been completed properly. Informal ballot papers are not counted towards any candidate but are set aside.

"According to section 268 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act (1918), a vote is informal if:

"the ballot paper is not marked at all

"the ballot paper does not have the official mark and has not been initialled by the polling official, and the ballot paper is not authentic in the opinion of the Divisional Returning Officer (DRO)

"the ballot paper has writing on it which identifies the voter
in the case of an absent vote, the ballot paper is not contained in the declaration envelope

"the voter has not completed a full preferential vote. There are savings measures to keep formal some ballot papers marked incompletely or incorrectly."

"Donkey vote

"A ballot paper marked 1, 2, 3, 4 straight down (or up) a ballot paper."

http://www.aec.gov.au/footer/Glossary.htm

And, from Antony Green:

"The Sustainable Population Party polled just 0.9% of the vote but delivered a remarkable 72.5% of preferences to Labor, this high flow from a low vote largely due to the donkey vote."

"The fact that Liberal Andrew Hastie is higher on the ballot paper than Labor's Matt Keogh gives Hastie a narrow advantage by the donkey vote, but the advantage is unchanged on the 2013 election when Don Randall drew top spot on the ballot.

"So the donkey vote favours the Liberal Party in Canning, but it is neutral in its impact on the swing needed compared to the 2013 election because the Liberal Party had the donkey vote advantage in 2013 and again in 2015."

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2015/09/preferences-donkey-votes-and-the-can...

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Aussie

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #47 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:27pm

Quote:

And, from Antony Green:

"The Sustainable Population Party polled just 0.9% of the vote but delivered a remarkable 72.5% of preferences to Labor, this high flow from a low vote largely due to the donkey vote."

As you have already posted, the 'donkey vote' numbers are never recorded, so Green is speculating.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #48 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:33pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

Quote:

And, from Antony Green:

"The Sustainable Population Party polled just 0.9% of the vote but delivered a remarkable 72.5% of preferences to Labor, this high flow from a low vote largely due to the donkey vote."

As you have already posted, the 'donkey vote' numbers are never recorded, so Green is speculating.

Yes.

However, they are counted.

That's the bit Armpit doesn't seem to understand.

For some strange reason, he thinks that donkey votes are informal.

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Fuzzball

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #49 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:39pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

We all have our own opinion, even an arsewipe like you.

Once again arsewipe IMO compulsory voting is undemocratic...

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Dnarever

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #50 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:42pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

1/ People with no political interest or knowledge vote.

2/ People vote by tradition rather than who is best. eg "My grandpappy always used to vote labour, so I do.'

3/ It costs more.

Quote:

People with no political interest or knowledge vote.

Many may still vote if it were optional.

Quote:

People vote by tradition rather than who is best

They will still vote for the same reasons only their traditional vote would have a larger impact on the result.

Quote:

It costs more

With a huge pool of people not voting the cost of preventing these votes being harvested to vote by proxy could be immense. It could conceivable cost a lot more.

I like the way we do it.

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Dnarever Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 61302 Here Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #51 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:45pm If you are Australian you are expected to vote, it is part of the responsibility of being Australian. You don't want to vote you don't want to be Australian.
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Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #52 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 9:51pm

"We're lucky we have that right." - armchair politician

That's just a cliche coming out of your rear. Anything compulsory is not a right, it's a dictatorial command punishable if not complied with. So much for free elections ...

Article 21. ( From UN Human Rights, if you believe in them, and it seems the Libs and Labs do given that they've turned OZ over to the UN)

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Compulsory voting also violates this UN Human Right ...

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Politicians often say "You can't fool the voters', they are intelligent" ... It'll be interesting to see if they drop compulsory voting when and if we get a Republic

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Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #53 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

If you are Australian you are expected to vote, it is part of the responsibility of being Australian.

You don't want to vote you don't want to be Australian.

Hogwash. voting doesn't determine if you are Australian or not.

If you are Australian you are expected to vote,

Yes, expected to the point of being punished if you don't, typical of dictatorial Libs and Labs. Glad to get rid of youse if we get a Republic

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Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #54 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:52pm

So it shouldn't be difficult for you all to now clearly determine that compulsory voting is not democratic and is not a right ... it's a punishable dictatorial command that violates ...

Human Rights Article 4 (Freedom from Slavery)

Human Rights Article 21 (3) (Adoption of Free elections)

Natural Human right of being free to vote or not ... (who would really want to vote for the dictatorial Libs and Labs any more ? we all know they're driving us up the wall)

Australia is NOT a free and democratic nation, it's a Soviet dictatorship with fries

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John Smith

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #55 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:56pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Then that's their loss because they get no say in shaping this country, which is a shame because I take pride in being able to say my vote counted and I had a say in which direction my country will take. By the way, the figure you're looking for is 5.92% of votes at the 2013 election were marked as "informal" (source: http://electionwatch.edu.au/australia-2013/analysis/informal-voting-rise).

weren't you one of the righties claiming you would cast a informal vote rather than vote for turncoat or labor at the next election? Cheesy

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« Last Edit: Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:15pm by John Smith »

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89922 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #56 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:00pm Best chance is to stand as - say - Aaron Aabaac?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #57 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:04pm Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 9:51pm: No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; ohh please ... you want to liken voting to slavery? Get real
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #58 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:14pm rubbish .... the only reason some of the far right want to scrap compulsory voting is because they believe it will improve their chances of winning an election
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #59 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:17pm Compulsory voting is absolutely retarded. I have always believed this. There is a reason pretty much every other country in the western world doesn't do it.
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