Australian Politics Forum - Detrimental effects of compulsory voting

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150630 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #30 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:22pm double plus good wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:16pm: If voting was compulsory Labor would never get in. Many working class people and ethnics don't give a crap about politics. Voting is compulsory, Homo.
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double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #31 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:30pm Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:20pm: double plus good wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:16pm: If voting was compulsory Labor would never get in. Many working class people and ethnics don't give a crap about politics. Link? That's my opinion and a damned good one.
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double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #32 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:30pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:22pm: double plus good wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:16pm: If voting was compulsory Labor would never get in. Many working class people and ethnics don't give a crap about politics. Voting is compulsory, Homo. wasn't pecca. it was a typo.
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Aussie

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #33 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:32pm

Mr Peccary is quite correct. If there are eight candidates, and all the numbers 1-8 appear, one in each box, it is a formal vote. They decide 'doubtfuls' on the basis of whether the voter's intent was clear.

I did not see it.....but I reckon that provided all the required numbers appear once in each box, it likely would not invalidate the vote if 'Abbott sux' was also written on it.

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Bam

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #34 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:37pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election.

100% incorrect.

I've been a scrutineer for a lot longer than you.

I can tell you, they don't keep statistics on donkey votes.

Moreover, donkey votes are counted as legitimate votes.

"Definition: A donkey vote occurs when an elector simply numbers the ballot paper from top to bottom (or bottom to top) without regard to the logic of the preference allocation.
A donkey vote is counted as a valid vote because it contains a number “1” and has numbered every square in sequential order."

http://australianpolitics.com/voting-elections/electoral-system/donkey-votes

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer, because if you had you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks" (I actually saw that one, along with "Tony sucks" all in the same night).

Which of the following are valid votes on a ballot paper with seven candidates:

Ballot Paper 1: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
Ballot Paper 2: [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] [F] [G]
Ballot Paper 3: [I] [II] [III] [IV] [V] [VI] [VII]
Ballot paper 4: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] plus a stick figure labelled "Abbott' copulating with a map of Australia
Ballot Paper 5: [2]1 [1]2 [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39703 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #35 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 5:21pm All are, except # 2.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41311 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #36 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 5:33pm does it enable the weird small parties?
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macman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2435 australia Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #37 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 5:41pm 'How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election'. Armpit, your best ever.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #38 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:07pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer ...

I couldn't care less what you believe, but I've scrutinised at at least six elections (state and federal).

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

... you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks"...

What I said, to correct you, is that donkey votes and informal votes are not the same thing.

Donkey votes are not regarded as informal.

A donkey vote is one that numbers all boxes in sequential order, either from top to bottom or bottom to top.

They are perfectly legitimate, and they are not put aside as informal - they are included in the tally.

You got it wrong. Time to move on.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150630 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #39 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:18pm Aussie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 5:21pm: All are, except # 2. Numbers written as words are also acceptable. e.g. one three four two etc. Also, the numbers do not have to be inside the box in order to be a formal vote: they can be placed to the right of the candidates' name.
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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #40 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:34pm

Bam wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:26pm:

... wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 2:30pm:

It was not introduced to be fair, it was introduced to make change difficult.

Incorrect.

It was introduced by a conservative government about a century ago to counter the possibility of unions mobilising their members to vote.

In other words, to make change more difficult.

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In the fullness of time...

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BigOl64

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #41 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:42pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

1/ People with no political interest or knowledge vote.

2/ People vote by tradition rather than who is best. eg "My grandpappy always used to vote labour, so I do.'

3/ It costs more.

And it legitimises, scumbag pollies, into believing their mediocre attributes is what gets them them money.

More lies equals more votes, more votes equals more money for the coffers of these cretins.

Don't register and you won't have to vote, the AEC is populated by dysfunctional clock watchers; over 1 million Australians can't be wrong.

"The AEC studied the 2010 election and found more than 3 million Australians did not vote.

Of those 1.5 million people were not enrolled, 900,000 people were enrolled but did not vote and nearly 750,0000 people cast an informal vote."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-21/figures-show-25-per-cent-of-young-people-f...

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #42 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:09pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer ...

I couldn't care less what you believe, but I've scrutinised at at least six elections (state and federal).

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

... you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks"...

What I said, to correct you, is that donkey votes and informal votes are not the same thing.

Donkey votes are not regarded as informal.

WRONG!!!

A donkey vote is one that numbers all boxes in sequential order, either from top to bottom or bottom to top.

They are perfectly legitimate, and they are not put aside as informal - they are included in the tally.

You got it wrong. Time to move on.

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Bam

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #43 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:13pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:

All are, except # 2.

Actually, using letters does count as a formal vote, provided that the letters start at "A" or "a" and the rest of the boxes follow the alphabet in sequence. It counts because it clearly indicates the first preference and indicates a clear order of preference.

However, I do not recommend using the alphabet to mark ballot papers in case it is rejected as informal by someone who is unaware of these technicalities. When marking a valid vote, always use consecutive Arabic numbers starting from 1 and number all boxes.

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Bam

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #44 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:14pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer ...

I couldn't care less what you believe, but I've scrutinised at at least six elections (state and federal).

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm:

... you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks"...

What I said, to correct you, is that donkey votes and informal votes are not the same thing.

Donkey votes are not regarded as informal.

WRONG!!!

A donkey vote is one that numbers all boxes in sequential order, either from top to bottom or bottom to top.

They are perfectly legitimate, and they are not put aside as informal - they are included in the tally.

You got it wrong. Time to move on.

If you disagree, please provide a link to a reputable source.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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