Australian Politics Forum - Detrimental effects of compulsory voting

Bam

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #15 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:35pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:26pm:

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

We have the opposite problem here. We're made to vote even if we don't want to do, otherwise you get fined. Why not do as the Americans do and give people the option of whether or not they want to vote?

We need to do two things in this country with regard to voting:

1. Move to electronic voting - presto, no more informal votes and no more incidences of voting multiple times. This would also allow for much swifter reporting of the election result and far greater accuracy of the count.

Electronic voting is highly susceptible to fraud and hacking.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:26pm:

2. Abolish preferences and move to a "first past the post" system.

And entrench conservative governments for excessively long terms? That's highly undemocratic. That's obviously your intention, don't deny it.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #16 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:36pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election.

100% incorrect.

I've been a scrutineer for a lot longer than you.

I can tell you, they don't keep statistics on donkey votes.

Moreover, donkey votes are counted as legitimate votes.

"Definition: A donkey vote occurs when an elector simply numbers the ballot paper from top to bottom (or bottom to top) without regard to the logic of the preference allocation.
A donkey vote is counted as a valid vote because it contains a number “1” and has numbered every square in sequential order."

http://australianpolitics.com/voting-elections/electoral-system/donkey-votes

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Its time

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #17 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:36pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:24pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

I would be surprised if more than 10% actually had a clue what they were voting for , apathy is rife in this country .

Especially among the Left. They don't care why they vote for Labor other than because they don't like Tony Abbott, for example. Yeah, that's a good reason. Roll Eyes

No we knew he didnt cut the grade years before you righties, if he was any good he would still be PM yes ?

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matty

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #18 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:36pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:26pm:

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

We have the opposite problem here. We're made to vote even if we don't want to do, otherwise you get fined. Why not do as the Americans do and give people the option of whether or not they want to vote?

We need to do two things in this country with regard to voting:

1. Move to electronic voting - presto, no more informal votes and no more incidences of voting multiple times. This would also allow for much swifter reporting of the election result and far greater accuracy of the count.

2. Abolish preferences and move to a "first past the post" system.

I agree with that as well, but why not also move to voluntary voting? Why make people vote when they don't want to vote?

I am a very very conservative person and would never vote for Labor or the Greens. However, I am also very very disillusioned with the federal government and don't want to vote for them. Why force me to go and vote when I don't want to vote for any of them?

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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #19 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:37pm 8 million voters.. only half vote.. 4 million people control who runs the gov t???... we are lazy by nature.. we are getting lazier....so that 4 mill will become 3.5.million and then 2 million... going down..
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #20 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:37pm

THE GREATEST MYTH ABOUT DONKEY VOTES

Many people believe that donkey votes are informal. This is not true.

A donkey vote is counted as a valid/formal vote. Provided the voter has marked the number “1” against a candidate and numbered the other candidates in order of preference, the vote will be counted.

http://australianpolitics.com/voting-elections/electoral-system/donkey-votes

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matty

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #21 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:40pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election. Also, the article in your link says as much: "Blank ballots and those with scribbles, slogans or other protest vote marks were assumed to be intentionally informal."

Really? Why is that the case? I had no idea. What if someone genuinely wants to preference from 1 to whatever in the order from top to bottom? Given all the different electorates and all the different voters that is bound to happen. In fact it would be even highly likely in electorates with three or four candidates.

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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!

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Kat

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #22 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:40pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:26pm:

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

We have the opposite problem here. We're made to vote even if we don't want to do, otherwise you get fined. Why not do as the Americans do and give people the option of whether or not they want to vote?

We need to do two things in this country with regard to voting:

1. Move to electronic voting - presto, no more informal votes and no more incidences of voting multiple times. This would also allow for much swifter reporting of the election result and far greater accuracy of the count.

2. Abolish preferences and

move to a "first past the post" system

.

Not under any circumstances.

That's how the scumbag Cameron got back in in the UK despite hardly anyone actually wanting him.

FPTP is anything BUT democratic.

Shove it!

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« Last Edit: Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:02pm by Kat »

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #23 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:41pm

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election. Also, the article in your link says as much: "Blank ballots and those with scribbles, slogans or other protest vote marks were assumed to be intentionally informal."

Really?

No, not really.

Donkey votes are definitely counted as legitimate votes.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #24 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:50pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election.

100% incorrect.

I've been a scrutineer for a lot longer than you.

I can tell you, they don't keep statistics on donkey votes.

Moreover, donkey votes are counted as legitimate votes.

"Definition: A donkey vote occurs when an elector simply numbers the ballot paper from top to bottom (or bottom to top) without regard to the logic of the preference allocation.
A donkey vote is counted as a valid vote because it contains a number “1” and has numbered every square in sequential order."

http://australianpolitics.com/voting-elections/electoral-system/donkey-votes

I don't believe you've ever been a scrutineer, because if you had you'd know that informal votes include those marked incorrectly (i.e. incorrectly numbering boxes or putting ticks or crosses or circles around candidate names, etc), those with unauthorised marks (eg signatures or initials other than a mark by an election official in the corner of the ballot paper) and also those with drawings of fairies or words like "Rudd sucks" (I actually saw that one, along with "Tony sucks" all in the same night).

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Its time

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #25 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:54pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:41pm:

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election. Also, the article in your link says as much: "Blank ballots and those with scribbles, slogans or other protest vote marks were assumed to be intentionally informal."

Really?

No, not really.

Donkey votes are definitely counted as legitimate votes.

I meant the votes people write profanities or nothing at all on .

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #26 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:58pm

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:41pm:

matty wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:29pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Fuzzball wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

Not forgetting that it's undemocratic.

No it's not. Furthermore, do you know how many people living under undemocratic rule would give their right arm to be able to cast a vote? We're lucky we have that right. Is it really that much of an obligation to be asked to tick a few boxes on some paper every few years? Poor petal!

I cant remember the figures but there was a lot of no shows and donkey votes last elecrion , unsurprising given what was available

Informal votes, not donkey votes (they don't keep statistics on the number of donkey votes).

"Last September's total rate of informal votes - 5.91 per cent for the House of Representatives - was the largest in Australia since 1984."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/12/australias-rate-informal-votes-hig...

Sorry, but you're wrong about the donkey votes. Donkey votes are included in the statistics as informal votes because a donkey vote is classed as an informal vote. How do I know? I was an election scrutineer at the 2013 election. Also, the article in your link says as much: "Blank ballots and those with scribbles, slogans or other protest vote marks were assumed to be intentionally informal."

Really?

No, not really.

Donkey votes are definitely counted as legitimate votes.

I meant the votes people write profanities or nothing at all on .

That's an informal vote. If you sign your name, it's an informal vote. If you say "Tony sucks", it's an informal vote. If you draw a unicorn on the ballot paper, it's an informal vote. If you place ticks instead of numbers in the boxes on the ballot paper, it's an informal vote. If you place absolutely zero marks on the paper and fold it up and place it in the box on your way out the door, it's an informal vote. The term "donkey vote" is just a slang term used to describe an informal vote.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #27 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:05pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 3:58pm:

The term "donkey vote" is just a slang term used to describe an informal vote.

No.

They are two different things.

From the AEC:

"Donkey vote

"A ballot paper marked 1, 2, 3, 4 straight down (or up) a ballot paper."

http://www.aec.gov.au/footer/glossary.htm

And:

"For some reason, many people think that a donkey vote is the same as an informal vote. IT’S NOT!

"Definition of a donkey vote: A donkey vote occurs when a voter numbers every box on the ballot paper in order from top to bottom, without regard to the logic of the preferences. In some cases, a voter might start at the bottom of the ballot paper and number them in order to the top.

"A DONKEY VOTE IS A FORMAL VOTE. IT WILL BE COUNTED AND IT WILL GO TO WHOEVER IS MARKED NUMBER 1."

http://australianpolitics.com/2013/09/04/what-happens-to-donkey-votes.html

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double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #28 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:16pm If voting was compulsory Labor would never get in. Many working class people and ethnics don't give a crap about politics.
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #29 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:20pm double plus good wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:16pm: If voting was compulsory Labor would never get in. Many working class people and ethnics don't give a crap about politics. Link?
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