Australian Politics Forum - Detrimental effects of compulsory voting

Bias_2012

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #120 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:41pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:01pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:51am:

I don't see voting so much as being a right as an obligation and it's an obligation I'm happy to carry out.

There's nothing wrong with that and I'm guessing you would feel the same if voting was voluntary, would I be right ? What we need to do is to get everyone to be just as enthusiastic as you but it won't be done by continuing compulsory voting which only causes resentment, not a good way going forward if you ask me. Only the Libs and Labs would want to keep us in servitude in the 21st century, they find it easy to misuse power, they misuse it because they can, all they're doing is administering cowards punches

Do you really resent being expected to take part in the voting process, as is our right in a democratic nation?

Did you do any schooling, do you know the difference between "compulsory" and "voluntary" ?

It's taking a lot of cyber space to get through to your brain that compulsory voting cancels out "the right to vote" and instead it becomes "coercively compelled to vote"

I can tell you're not very intelligent by the way you keep saying we all should vote no matter what... and at the same time you say if we don't want to vote we can get our names crossed out and just put a blank ballot paper in the box. It's that type of stupidity that myself and others are fighting against. It reminds me of Union voting, if you abstain from voting at a Union meeting, an extra vote automatically goes to the majority. Only Labor supporters could think up such stupidity

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ian

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #121 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:53pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:19pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:00pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am:

the fine is for not turning up at the polling booth and having your name ticked off.. there is no penalty for not voting.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states: "It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election".

Under the Electoral Act, the actual duty of the elector is to attend a polling place, have their name marked off the certified list, receive a ballot paper and take it to an individual voting booth, mark it, fold the ballot paper and place it in the ballot box.

It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions:

High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380

Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807

High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271

Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte

Krosch [1974] QdR 107

ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13

http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/index.htm

regardless, the reality is that it is not compolsory to vote. Just getting your name ticked off is sufficent to avoid the small fine

Incorrect.

From the AEC:

"It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions".

Read the case law.

Can you name 1 person who has been fined after turning up to get their name ticked off and then not voting? Just 1 will do.

Don't change the subject when you're losing.

You said: "the reality is that it is not compolsory to vote."

You were wrong.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states:

"It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election". ("shall" is an imperative)

Under the Electoral Act, the actual duty of the elector is to attend a polling place, have their name marked off the certified list, receive a ballot paper and take it to an individual voting booth, mark it, fold the ballot paper and place it in the ballot box.

It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions:

High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380

Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807

High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271

Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte

Krosch [1974] QdR 107

ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13

http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/index.htm

. No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39715 Gender:	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #122 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:07pm Quote: . No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated.. Really? How about Hinch? Link.
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freediver

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #123 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:12pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

1/ People with no political interest or knowledge vote.

2/ People vote by tradition rather than who is best. eg "My grandpappy always used to vote labour, so I do.'

3/ It costs more.

The main effect of voluntary voting is a significant detriment to the election time discourse. Parties put most of their efforts into motivation style preaching to choir - the typical circus you see for American elections. Compulsory voting shifts the attention to trying to gain the rational middle ground, appeal to swinging voters and poach supporters from the other side.

I know which I would prefer. Voting is a responsibility, not a right.

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John Smith

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #124 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:27pm

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:26am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:56am:

Only you could conceive that the only reason people don't vote was due to complexity of carrying out this task

no, I'm sure others have come to realise that about you too!

Luckily you have a functional delete button, so removing half my post makes your reply less moronic.

You and only you, believes that voting is difficult, a monumental task that must be conquered, being a functional retard would make it seem that way, wouldn't it genius?

Why would I think it was difficult? I think it's one of the easiest things you'll ever be expected to do. Yet somehow you still struggle with it.

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ian

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #125 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:28pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote:

. No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Really? How about Hinch?

Link.

And? As i stated and it is really quite simple, the compulsion is in turning up at the polling booth regardless of the details of the fine imposed. Once you have your name ticked off there is no compulsion to vote, no one in history has ever been fined for having their name ticked off and not voting, no one. Compulsion has not been demonstrated.

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Aussie

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #126 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:32pm

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote:

. No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Really? How about Hinch?

Link.

And? As i stated and it is really quite simple, the compulsion is in turning up at the polling booth regardless of the details of the fine imposed. Once you have your name ticked off there is no compulsion to vote, no one in history has ever been fined for having their name ticked off and not voting, no one. Compulsion has not been demonstrated.

Ah! You have now moved the goal posts. You really should not have done that just to please me, ian.

However, your new goal posts are in the correct position. No-one has ever been fined for turning up, having their name crossed off, going into the booth.....doing nothing.......and bunging the unmarked ballot paper into the box. Give yourself a pat on the back, ian. Well done!

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #127 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:35pm

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:53pm:

No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Incorrect.

I've been fined for not voting.

Many people have been fined for not voting.

I've even given you case law.

You're so wrong on this, it's not funny.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting Reply #128 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:35pm nothings been changed. Its what I originally stated, there is no compulsion in voting.
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ian

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #129 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:36pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:53pm:

No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Incorrect.

I've been fined for not voting.

Many people have been fined for not voting.

I've even given you case law.

You're so wrong on this, it's not funny.

But to avoid the fine, you didnt have to vote.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #130 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:39pm

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote:

. No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Really? How about Hinch?

Link.

And? As i stated and it is really quite simple, the compulsion is in turning up at the polling booth regardless of the details of the fine imposed. Once you have your name ticked off there is no compulsion to vote...

Incorrect.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states:

"It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election" ("shall" is an imperative).

It is not the case, as some people have claimed, that it is only compulsory to attend the polling place and have your name marked off, and this has been upheld by a number of legal decisions:

High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380

Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807

High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271

Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte

Krosch [1974] QdR 107

ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13

http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/index.htm

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #131 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:40pm

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:53pm:

No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Incorrect.

I've been fined for not voting.

Many people have been fined for not voting.

I've even given you case law.

You're so wrong on this, it's not funny.

But to avoid the fine, you didnt have to vote.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states:

"It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election".

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Dnarever

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #132 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:52pm

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote:

. No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Really? How about Hinch?

Link.

And? As i stated and it is really quite simple, the compulsion is in turning up at the polling booth regardless of the details of the fine imposed. Once you have your name ticked off there is no compulsion to vote, no one in history has ever been fined for having their name ticked off and not voting, no one. Compulsion has not been demonstrated.

You said the same thin in response to a post listing about 6 cases where people were fined and then again here with a Link to an article with another fine documented.

These are mostly cases where people got their names crossed off and didn't vote - the were all fined.

•High Court 1926 – Judd v McKeon (1926) 38 CLR 380
•Supreme Court of Victoria 1970 – Lubcke v Little [1970] VR 807
•High Court 1971 – Faderson v Bridger (1971) 126 CLR 271
•Supreme Court of Queensland 1974 – Krosch v Springbell; ex parte
•Krosch [1974] QdR 107
•ACT Supreme Court 1981 – O'Brien v Warden (1981) 37 ACTR 13

consider the case of Krosch v Springell: ex parte Krosch [1974] QdR 107. Mr Springell arrived at a polling booth and handed the electoral officer a note saying he did not wish to vote for any candidate, as he found them all to be unworthy. He was prosecuted, and fined, for not voting despite the fact he had made the effort to turn up on Election Day.

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2016 at 4:04pm by Dnarever »

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Aussie

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #133 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:53pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:35pm:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 2:53pm:

No one in recorded history has been fined for not voting, therefore compulsion has not been demonstrated..

Incorrect.

I've been fined for not voting.

Many people have been fined for not voting.

I've even given you case law.

You're so wrong on this, it's not funny.

But to avoid the fine, you didnt have to vote.

The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, under section 245(1), states:

"It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election".

Does not word 'mark' (the ballot paper) appear somewhere?

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Aussie

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Re: Detrimental effects of compulsory voting
Reply #134 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 3:56pm

Quote:

consider the case of Krosch v Springell: ex parte Krosch [1974] QdR 107. Mr Springell arrived at a polling booth and handed the electoral officer a note saying he did not wish to vote for any candidate, as he found them all to be unworthy. He was prosecuted, and fined, for not voting despite the fact he had made the effort to turn up on Election Day.

I'm not surprised they 'got' him. They had his own confession he had breached what is required.

In the absence of a witness in the booth or a camera there, or a confession (of some kind) there is no way they can prove a breach once the name is crossed off.

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