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The disintegration of the EU (Read 10044 times)
Wolseley
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #30 - Jan 24th, 2016 at 7:00am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 9:36am:
I think the English have had it up to here with the Scots


The feeling is probably mutual.
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bogarde73
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #31 - Jan 24th, 2016 at 7:26am
 
I agree with you Athos. Bombing Serbia was a prime example of western stupidity.
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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
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bogarde73
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #32 - Jan 25th, 2016 at 10:16am
 
The EU bureaucracy seeking to supplant the decisions of national govts:

DeutscheWelle:
The European Commission, the EU's executive, last week launched an inquiry into recent Polish reforms of the judiciary, the media, Internet surveillance and other areas of public life.

Since coming to power in October, the right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) government has sought to sideline the constitutional tribunal, stack public media with placemen and introduce legislation that politicizes the civil service. The issues have split Polish society and play into Poland's intensifying culture wars between liberals and conservatives, with the country's place in the EU a key battlefield.

On one side are those who argue that Poland needs the EU to help it remember what democracy is about. "It's definitely good that the EU is looking into Polish democracy, because as soon as PiS came into power, democracy seems to have been shaken with every step the ruling party is taking," says Maja Piotrowska, who runs her own PR company in Warsaw. "The idea of the debate on Polish matters in the European Parliament was good, too, provided there are some effects from it."

Defiant speech

In some quarters in Poland, though, Prime Minister Beata Szydlo's assertion this week in Strasbourg that Brussels was meddling in Polish affairs went down well. More than half of Poles said Germany should not have the right to judge Poland's democracy, a poll by SW Research for Newsweek noted this week.

"Today I have the feeling of injustice that we are the subject of an experiment," Szydlo told the European Parliament. "We are a sovereign state, we are a free nation. Polish problems have to be discussed and solved in Poland, because whenever third parties [have] tried to solve our problems for us, that was disastrous. There have been no violations of the constitution in Poland recently," Szydlo said. "We are Europeans and we are proud of it," she added.
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Melanias purse
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #33 - Jan 25th, 2016 at 10:59am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 25th, 2016 at 10:16am:
The EU bureaucracy seeking to supplant the decisions of national govts:

DeutscheWelle:
The European Commission, the EU's executive, last week launched an inquiry into recent Polish reforms of the judiciary, the media, Internet surveillance and other areas of public life.

Since coming to power in October, the right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) government has sought to sideline the constitutional tribunal, stack public media with placemen and introduce legislation that politicizes the civil service. The issues have split Polish society and play into Poland's intensifying culture wars between liberals and conservatives, with the country's place in the EU a key battlefield.

On one side are those who argue that Poland needs the EU to help it remember what democracy is about. "It's definitely good that the EU is looking into Polish democracy, because as soon as PiS came into power, democracy seems to have been shaken with every step the ruling party is taking," says Maja Piotrowska, who runs her own PR company in Warsaw. "The idea of the debate on Polish matters in the European Parliament was good, too, provided there are some effects from it."

Defiant speech

In some quarters in Poland, though, Prime Minister Beata Szydlo's assertion this week in Strasbourg that Brussels was meddling in Polish affairs went down well. More than half of Poles said Germany should not have the right to judge Poland's democracy, a poll by SW Research for Newsweek noted this week.

"Today I have the feeling of injustice that we are the subject of an experiment," Szydlo told the European Parliament. "We are a sovereign state, we are a free nation. Polish problems have to be discussed and solved in Poland, because whenever third parties [have] tried to solve our problems for us, that was disastrous. There have been no violations of the constitution in Poland recently," Szydlo said. "We are Europeans and we are proud of it," she added.


Fighting back, eh? The benefit for Poles in being in the EU is clear to all in Europe.

Poles get to vote with their feet and move out of Poland.

Taking Poland out of the EU would only benefit Europe.
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #34 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 9:08am
 
They have to get their hands dirty if they want to preserve their precious socialist dream . . .but they won't:

New York Times:

AMSTERDAM — European Union interior ministers clashed on Monday over how to check the flow of migrants across their countries’ borders amid growing concern that the Continent’s commitment to the free movement of people within the bloc is at risk of collapse.
Some of the wealthy northern nations that are the preferred destinations of many migrants suggested that much of the solution should rest with their neighbors to the south, especially Greece, the main entry point into the European Union for refugees arriving from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan via Turkey. At a meeting here, Germany told Greece to do its “homework” to stop the flow at its borders, and Austria suggested that Greece could be excluded from the Schengen area, which allows border-free travel across much of the European Union.
Ioannis Mouzalas, a Greek minister for immigration policy, criticized the focus on his country, saying that the bloc had not made good on its pledges of more assistance in managing the flow of people — nearly 1.1 million arrived last year in the European Union — and that some European politicians were spreading “lies” about the crisis and the role of the government in Athens.

There is a “blame game against Greece,” Mr. Mouzalas said.

The larger question hanging over the ministers’ two-day meeting in Amsterdam is whether the European Union can agree on a collective approach to limiting the influx of migrants at Europe’s external borders — or whether that approach becomes an every-country-for-itself scramble to harden individual borders in response to domestic political, social and economic pressures.
Thousands of migrants are still arriving daily, and with no sign of a peaceful resolution in countries like Syria and Iraq, many more are expected this year as spring approaches and travel conditions from Turkey improve.

In the absence of any agreement on how to ease the flow of people into Greece and Italy, the crisis has become a political time bomb.

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany is under increased pressure from conservatives to reverse her government’s policy of welcoming migrants. In Brussels, there are even concerns that the failure to agree on a solution could threaten the entire European Union project, which began after World War II with the goal of unifying the Continent and ensuring its peaceable future.
The European Union has been trying to persuade Turkey to take a more active role in resolving the crisis by doing more to look after refugees there and stop them from trying the journey to the European Union. Another idea that has gained growing attention is to choke off some of the northward flow of migrants at the border between Greece and Macedonia, potentially leaving huge numbers of migrants in Greece at a time when that country is still recovering from its depressionlike downturn.

“There are now signs the European debate could very quickly transition to ways of keeping the refugees in Greece regardless of the economic impact that would have, including a renewed risk of pressure on Greece to exit the eurozone,” said Mujtaba Rahman, the Europe director for the Eurasia Group, a political risk consultancy.

Reaching a long-discussed deal between the European Union and Turkey to ease the flow of migrants would substantially lessen those dangers, Mr. Rahman said.

On Monday, over lunch at the Dutch National Maritime Museum, the ministers discussed freezing the free movement of people inside parts of the bloc for up to a further two years.

So far, six countries, including Germany and Austria, have suspended the system for a legally permissible period of six months. For Germany and Austria, that six-month period expires in late spring, just as a surge of new arrivals from the Middle East and Africa is expected.

Such suspensions can be renewed four more times. But keeping national border controls in place would be a sign of how difficult it will be for the bloc to back an arrangement to share the burden.

Klaas Dijkhoff, the Dutch state secretary for security and justice, said at a news conference that extending the border controls would be “inevitable” given current conditions, but he underlined that such a step “couldn’t replace the search for a real solution.”

The European Commission would first need to recommend such an extension, and a majority of European Union governments would then need to give their approval before it was granted.

The ministers, meeting informally in the Netherlands, which is leading the bloc’s ministerial meetings for the next six months, also agreed to continue hashing out plans to create a European Border and Coast Guard Agency.

That plan would double the staff of the current border agency, Frontex, and would create a separate reserve force to be deployed even when a member state rejects help. But some politicians suspect a blunt power grab by Brussels intended to diminish national sovereignty.
Arriving at the meeting in Amsterdam, the Austrian interior minister, Johanna Mikl-Leitner, warned that “the external Schengen border will move back towards Central Europe” — a thinly veiled threat to exclude Greece from the passport-free area unless Athens acted more forcefully.
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #35 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 9:08am
 
“It is a myth to think that the Greek-Turkish border cannot be secured,” Ms. Mikl-Leitner said, adding, “The Greek Navy has sufficient capacities to protect this border.”

Prime Minister Miro Cerar of Slovenia has recently proposed fortifying the border between Greece and Macedonia. That would serve as a firewall for Slovenia, a member state of the European Union and a participant in Schengen, by stopping migrants from making their way northward through Balkan countries like Macedonia.

The reaction from Mr. Mouzalas, the Greek immigration minister, was to portray much of the rest of the bloc as bullying and unfair.

Mr. Mouzalas said at a news conference on Monday that his country’s actions had been repeatedly misrepresented in some areas, including its willingness to accept help policing its coasts.

“They are saying we don’t want coast guards — it’s a lie,” said Mr. Mouzalas, who declined to identify those responsible for spreading false information.

Asked whether European resources should be used to help Macedonia strengthen controls on its border with Greece, Mr. Mouzalas suggested that such a plan would be illegal if it involved Frontex, the European border agency.

“We need Frontex in Greece,” he said.

Mr. Mouzalas also blamed other European Union countries for failing to fulfill his country’s requests for sufficient equipment to patrol the sea and islands near the Turkish coast. He said that a European Union proposal last year to move up to 160,000 migrants from Italy and Greece to other parts of the bloc had never been fully carried out, adding that only about 200 people had been relocated so far.
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #36 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 10:59am
 
...
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #37 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 6:30pm
 
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 9:06pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:40pm:
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 5:16pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 1:45pm:
It's a flawed idea and eventually destined to implode.


And yet, all the evidence points in the other direction. Nation states are knocking down trade, finance and even migration barriers quicker than at any other time in human history. This is not only multi-lateral (the EU, NAFTA, ASEAN, etc), but bi-lateral. We share a very loose "border" with New Zealand, and this is occurring between neighbours all over the world. In our region, even Burma is finally opening its borders. 

The only idea destined to implode is the re-erection of trade walls and barriers. The Great Depression saw this happen, and it led, inevitably, to WWII. The architecture of the post-war world, the UN, World Bank, IMF, and yes, the European Common Market, was designed to prevent WWIII.

There is no sinister campaign for One World Socialist Government, but a form of global governance will, most likely, be required. The majority of global business today is done by multinationals, those who fly outside the radar of nation states. We are heading towards a global rule of law.

I say most likely because we could go either way. We can close the shop, draw up alliances and mobilize our forces. Or we can keep trade barriers down and search the expanding horizon for more investment opportunities. This is literally the dichotomy we face.

Personally, I can't imagine us taking the former route, but I'm not ruling it out. If we stay on the current trajectory, we will eventually need a global rule of law, in whatever form that takes. The refugee crisis in Europe is a good example of the use of a multinational forum to solve local problems. The EU will be required to manage this problem, given the borders are shared. If the EU had existed in 1939, WWII would never have happened.

Believe it. The fall of the EU, if it ever occurs, will be the opening curtain for WWIII.


Stupid as always.

WWIII IS under way already. And when was the last time a "form of global governance" solved ANY problem??



Only at Bretton-Woods, dear boy.



Really?  And what problem did that solve? 

Please explain.

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innocentbystander.
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #38 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:43pm
 
We are experiencing 21st century warfare, warfare and conquering without guns ( for the most part ), the muslims are invading and conquering Europe by migration and the UN bureaucrats are conquering the world by using political correctness and government fiat.

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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #39 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 9:17pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 6:30pm:
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 9:06pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 8:40pm:
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 5:16pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 1:45pm:
It's a flawed idea and eventually destined to implode.


And yet, all the evidence points in the other direction. Nation states are knocking down trade, finance and even migration barriers quicker than at any other time in human history. This is not only multi-lateral (the EU, NAFTA, ASEAN, etc), but bi-lateral. We share a very loose "border" with New Zealand, and this is occurring between neighbours all over the world. In our region, even Burma is finally opening its borders. 

The only idea destined to implode is the re-erection of trade walls and barriers. The Great Depression saw this happen, and it led, inevitably, to WWII. The architecture of the post-war world, the UN, World Bank, IMF, and yes, the European Common Market, was designed to prevent WWIII.

There is no sinister campaign for One World Socialist Government, but a form of global governance will, most likely, be required. The majority of global business today is done by multinationals, those who fly outside the radar of nation states. We are heading towards a global rule of law.

I say most likely because we could go either way. We can close the shop, draw up alliances and mobilize our forces. Or we can keep trade barriers down and search the expanding horizon for more investment opportunities. This is literally the dichotomy we face.

Personally, I can't imagine us taking the former route, but I'm not ruling it out. If we stay on the current trajectory, we will eventually need a global rule of law, in whatever form that takes. The refugee crisis in Europe is a good example of the use of a multinational forum to solve local problems. The EU will be required to manage this problem, given the borders are shared. If the EU had existed in 1939, WWII would never have happened.

Believe it. The fall of the EU, if it ever occurs, will be the opening curtain for WWIII.


Stupid as always.

WWIII IS under way already. And when was the last time a "form of global governance" solved ANY problem??



Only at Bretton-Woods, dear boy.



Really?  And what problem did that solve? 

Please explain.



You look.back on the dozens of posts I’ve written on this, old chap - all posts you responded to.

I do tire of this repetition, you know. I’m.sure you think it’s marvellous, but you’re brain damaged, you poor old thing.
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aquascoot
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #40 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 9:30am
 
innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
We are experiencing 21st century warfare, warfare and conquering without guns ( for the most part ), the muslims are invading and conquering Europe by migration and the UN bureaucrats are conquering the world by using political correctness and government fiat.



i think adolf said in the bunker that if the german people could not hold off the invaders, they deserved annhiliation.
Prophetic words.
i do wonder if all the good strong british alpha male semen ended up on the fields of the Somme and all the good strong german alpha male semen ended up in the streets of Stalingrad.

Evolutionary pressure left the weak and cowardly beta male semen to propagate the british and german herds.


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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #41 - Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:26pm
 
Strains & Stresses:

Breitbart London:

BERLIN (Reuters) – It is unacceptable for German Chancellor Angela Merkel to cut deals on Europe’s refugee crisis with French President Francois Hollande and the head of the European Commission without involving Italy, Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi said.

Renzi, whose country is on the frontline of Europe’s refugee crisis, has stepped up his criticism of the EU on several fronts as he wrestles with Italy’s stubbornly low economic growth after three years of recession.

Speaking ahead of a meeting with Merkel in Berlin on Friday, Renzi told Germany’s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung daily he would be delighted if the German chancellor and Hollande could solve all Europe’s problems.

“But that is generally not the case,” he said in an interview published in the paper’s Thursday edition.

“If we’re looking for a joint European strategy to solve the refugee question, it can’t be sufficient for Angela to first call Hollande and then EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, and that I learn of the result in the press,” he added.
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #42 - Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:33pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 9:30am:
innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
We are experiencing 21st century warfare, warfare and conquering without guns ( for the most part ), the muslims are invading and conquering Europe by migration and the UN bureaucrats are conquering the world by using political correctness and government fiat.



i think adolf said in the bunker that if the german people could not hold off the invaders, they deserved annhiliation.
Prophetic words.


Good point, Aquascoot. You're quoting Hitler to support the genocide of millions of refugees.

Should we put this down as the Final Solution, or shall we keep brainstorming?
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #43 - Jan 29th, 2016 at 2:30pm
 
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:33pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 9:30am:
innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
We are experiencing 21st century warfare, warfare and conquering without guns ( for the most part ), the muslims are invading and conquering Europe by migration and the UN bureaucrats are conquering the world by using political correctness and government fiat.



i think adolf said in the bunker that if the german people could not hold off the invaders, they deserved annhiliation.
Prophetic words.


Good point, Aquascoot. You're quoting Hitler to support the genocide of millions of refugees.

Should we put this down as the Final Solution, or shall we keep brainstorming?


nothing of the sort.
I'm quoting hitler, that if you give up and let the invader take your country, you were the weaker race and the laws of nature were being followed.
Those pesky weeds will try to take over your garden .
If you are weak and have the wrong attitude and dont convert the right attitude into activity, guess what....

they
will
Take It  Wink
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Melanias purse
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Re: The disintegration of the EU
Reply #44 - Jan 29th, 2016 at 3:49pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 2:30pm:
Melanias purse wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:33pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 9:30am:
innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
We are experiencing 21st century warfare, warfare and conquering without guns ( for the most part ), the muslims are invading and conquering Europe by migration and the UN bureaucrats are conquering the world by using political correctness and government fiat.



i think adolf said in the bunker that if the german people could not hold off the invaders, they deserved annhiliation.
Prophetic words.


Good point, Aquascoot. You're quoting Hitler to support the genocide of millions of refugees.

Should we put this down as the Final Solution, or shall we keep brainstorming?


nothing of the sort.
I'm quoting hitler, that if you give up and let the invader take your country, you were the weaker race and the laws of nature were being followed.
Those pesky weeds will try to take over your garden .
If you are weak and have the wrong attitude and dont convert the right attitude into activity, guess what....

they
will
Take It  Wink


Should we purify the blood of the Australian people too?

I'm curious.
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