Australian Politics Forum - Time to overhaul political donations

John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #90 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:02am

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 7:38am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:59am:

Thing I love about handling the 'right' here is that they have no conception of reality..... and blunder about like blind drunken elephants..... like shooting fish in a barrel.

Does the Liberal Party... or the Nationals... when they sit down to discuss policy for the next election..... consist ONLY of elected representatives? In a pig's asset!

Don't make me laugh... that is the most amazing beat-up storm in a teacup ever.......

I LOVE the 'right' - they are such easy meat......

were they ELECTED MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT grap?>...

ALP delegate what does that mean???>..

shouldnt they have been called MPs if they were bonafide voted in members of parliament?...

this wasn't a government meeting, it was a party meeting. The MP's don't decide policy direction, the party does. Being an MP is not a prerequisite to being in a party.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #91 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:10am

John Smith wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:02am:

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 7:38am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:59am:

Thing I love about handling the 'right' here is that they have no conception of reality..... and blunder about like blind drunken elephants..... like shooting fish in a barrel.

Does the Liberal Party... or the Nationals... when they sit down to discuss policy for the next election..... consist ONLY of elected representatives? In a pig's asset!

Don't make me laugh... that is the most amazing beat-up storm in a teacup ever.......

I LOVE the 'right' - they are such easy meat......

were they ELECTED MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT grap?>...

ALP delegate what does that mean???>..

shouldnt they have been called MPs if they were bonafide voted in members of parliament?...

this wasn't a government meeting, it was a party meeting. The MP's don't decide policy direction, the party does. Being an MP is not a prerequisite to being in a party.

Indeed - but the position does bring with it perquisites.... a.k.a. perks.

PARTY delegates. God help us - Longmania is a Liberal Party member by hir own confession. Who do you think votes for Party delegates to Party conferences. I think you'll find - if you dig deep enough - that NOBODY does in reality in any Party and that 'delegates' are part of the self-appointed and self-interested elite.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #92 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:21am

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 9:50pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 8:01pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:28pm:

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

well there goes another thread that might have done some good..

as per usual trashed by the usual suspects..

who find personal abuse is really the only reason they come on here..

what was this thread about again.....is it really about whos right... or whos wrong..with silly pics to score a point..god grow up.

For once i agree with you

Also agree - political donations are clearly a problem in this country, but as soon as the Liberals are implicated in examples of shady dealings the abuse starts flying. Some people clearly need to be banned. Permanently.

It took away time that could have been better spent showing other examples of dubious dealings, such as the recent revelations that Queensland Nickel donated about $250,000 to PUP right before sacking 237 workers. All the parties receive dubious donations, but somehow it's wrong to point out that the Liberals have one or two particularly bad examples of this.

We do need a federal ICAC.

so the bickering stops lets blame the Libs... so bloody typical..

since when do the libs ever s[end $30 million in one year like the unions did...

Probably 2013 ... do you think those election ads come cheap?

As for unions, they can run political ads if they want, as can companies, Clive Palmer, or anyone else who wants to spend the cash. Even Murdoch can press his views, as long as the distinction between news and opinion is not blurred.

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #93 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:36am

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 7:47am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 7:43am:

So you also agree political parties should be publicly funded? Cods, I think your turning leftie on us Wink

I am not sure I said that....but something has to change...

I am all in favour of pollies giving up their free passes... like overseas trips for the whole family...gold passes when they retire...let them even pay full price in the canteen and bar....

let them pay parking fees.. like the poor people do..

and all that is saved contributing to election time...

I would imagine over 4 years it would add up...

what do you think of that for an idea. Roll Eyes

It is definitely an idea worth considering. The trouble is, the ones who would lose out are also the ones who make the rules.

Executives of public companies have to get 75% approval of their packages from the shareholders. Why can't politicians get their packages confirmed in the same way? If politician perks and even pay rises were subject to a confirmation vote at a plebiscite, they would be a lot more interested in serving the needs of the people.

It won't work as a way of saving money though, for the simple reason that the cost of running the plebiscite would be greater than the amount saved.

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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #94 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am

Bam wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 9:50pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 8:01pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:28pm:

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

well there goes another thread that might have done some good..

as per usual trashed by the usual suspects..

who find personal abuse is really the only reason they come on here..

what was this thread about again.....is it really about whos right... or whos wrong..with silly pics to score a point..god grow up.

For once i agree with you

Also agree - political donations are clearly a problem in this country, but as soon as the Liberals are implicated in examples of shady dealings the abuse starts flying. Some people clearly need to be banned. Permanently.

It took away time that could have been better spent showing other examples of dubious dealings, such as the recent revelations that Queensland Nickel donated about $250,000 to PUP right before sacking 237 workers. All the parties receive dubious donations, but somehow it's wrong to point out that the Liberals have one or two particularly bad examples of this.

We do need a federal ICAC.

so the bickering stops lets blame the Libs... so bloody typical..

since when do the libs ever s[end $30 million in one year like the unions did...

Probably 2013 ... do you think those election ads come cheap?

As for unions, they can run political ads if they want, as can companies, Clive Palmer, or anyone else who wants to spend the cash. Even Murdoch can press his views, as long as the distinction between news and opinion is not blurred.

exactly its DONATIONS>>> dont you get that...

they are advertising a political party.......

is it for their own benefit... that we dont kn ow..

but the same goes for anyone that pays for an ad....and or tickets to sit next to a minister at a fund raiser.....

this is what its all about it isnt just one party that abuses it..

the news we get in papers... is up to us to read...

we havea choice but when its in the middle of your fav program not once not twice but a dozen times....as you say they cost the earth.....apart from being irritating..

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #95 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:57am

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

is it for their own benefit... that we dont kn ow..

yes we do

but the same goes for anyone that pays for an ad....and or tickets to sit next to a minister at a fund raiser.....

this is what its all about it isnt just one party that abuses it..

that's the whole problem right there. No one said it was just one party & no one exempted unions from this. Politicians are supposed to do what they think is best for the PUBLIC as a whole. Not whats best for their donors. When politicians do Newscorps bidding or the CFMEU's bidding over and above whats best for the country, democracy has failed.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #96 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:20am

John Smith wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:57am:

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

is it for their own benefit... that we dont kn ow..

yes we do

but the same goes for anyone that pays for an ad....and or tickets to sit next to a minister at a fund raiser.....

this is what its all about it isnt just one party that abuses it..

that's the whole problem right there. No one said it was just one party & no one exempted unions from this. Politicians are supposed to do what they think is best for the PUBLIC as a whole. Not whats best for their donors. When politicians do Newscorps bidding or the CFMEU's bidding over and above whats best for the country, democracy has failed.

i was replying to bams post....and she gave me the impression she wasnt on the same page...

someone brought up about TAXPAYERS funding the elections to do away with donations...

I amde a suggestiong we start taking perks away from the pollies to pay tax payers fund the elections.. I dont knwo what the answer is...

all I know is SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE..

the way it is! its open to corruption if not corruption suspected corruption...

how do we change it..

no donations and some are deadset against Tax funded..

I dont mind tax funded as long as every AUstralian gets to chip in..

I have suggested the pollies START with chipping in... Roll Eyes

..

an election no matter what local or otherwise cost a lot of money....we have to accept there is no getting away from it...BUT REFORM IT NEEDS...

well at least I SAY IT DOES.

this is not a paid political broadcast...

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #97 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:27am

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:20am:

someone brought up about TAXPAYERS funding the elections to do away with donations.

We can't stop political campaigns, the public has to know what each person or party has to offer. If we stop donations, they will have to be publicly funded.

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:20am:

I amde a suggestiong we start taking perks away from the pollies to pay tax payers fund the elections..

we should take away a lot of their perks anyway. Currently they're all pigs at the trough. We should set much higher standards of all politicians when they are spending tax payer dollars. I suggest they do what every taxpayer in the country has to do, front up to the tax office with receipts, if the claim is justified, they get a refund, if not they don't get a refund. I don't see why politicians shouldn't be subjected to the same standards they impose on everyone else.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #98 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:37am

We can't stop political campaigns, the public has to know what each person or party has to offer. If we stop donations, they will have to be publicly funded.

of course!!!!! and we dont want to stop all that .. this is why the question who picks up the bill

is it the Tax payer..??

of course we need to be told via the media which costs hugely...

so who will pick up the tab???....

and lets face it each election will cost more than the one before...

maybe electronic voting will reign in some of the costs....would be ok if we could vote via the computer wouldnt it??......

the drama we go through at the schools is a bit of a joke....did you know most of those working there and getting paid are the teachers... Roll Eyes

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #99 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 2:24pm

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

Bam wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 9:50pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 8:01pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:28pm:

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

well there goes another thread that might have done some good..

as per usual trashed by the usual suspects..

who find personal abuse is really the only reason they come on here..

what was this thread about again.....is it really about whos right... or whos wrong..with silly pics to score a point..god grow up.

For once i agree with you

Also agree - political donations are clearly a problem in this country, but as soon as the Liberals are implicated in examples of shady dealings the abuse starts flying. Some people clearly need to be banned. Permanently.

It took away time that could have been better spent showing other examples of dubious dealings, such as the recent revelations that Queensland Nickel donated about $250,000 to PUP right before sacking 237 workers. All the parties receive dubious donations, but somehow it's wrong to point out that the Liberals have one or two particularly bad examples of this.

We do need a federal ICAC.

so the bickering stops lets blame the Libs... so bloody typical..

since when do the libs ever s[end $30 million in one year like the unions did...

Probably 2013 ... do you think those election ads come cheap?

As for unions, they can run political ads if they want, as can companies, Clive Palmer, or anyone else who wants to spend the cash. Even Murdoch can press his views, as long as the distinction between news and opinion is not blurred.

exactly its DONATIONS>>> dont you get that...

they are advertising a political party.......

is it for their own benefit... that we dont kn ow..

but the same goes for anyone that pays for an ad....and or tickets to sit next to a minister at a fund raiser.....

this is what its all about it isnt just one party that abuses it..

I never said it was. I have been posting for a while now on the deficiencies of a political system that relies too heavily on donations, and the implication that those donations come with favours. I don't care which political party, and I don't care whether its unions, businesses or individuals. They all diminish the rights of others when they push their own interests.

We need to keep the funding of elections separate from these people, and have a Federal ICAC to make sure they are kept separate. If these people want to influence policy, they can write a letter like everyone else; if they want to influence others they can pay for their own ads and put their own name on them.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #100 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 3:02pm Agreed! Political donations should simply be banned, be made illegal!
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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #101 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 6:38am

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 3:02pm:

Agreed!

Political donations should simply be banned, be made illegal!

to replace them with what???...

I often wonder what they did years ago before TV and advertising.... Roll Eyes

its time they looked at the waste as well .... all those leaflets that get tossed away...must cost a fortune...all they have to do is put one of each up on the wall of the booth.. we dont need one in each hand...

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #102 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:20am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

Has it ever occurred to you that the reporters AT THE TIME might have known just a tad more than you do now 53 years later? Why dont you research all the articles complaining about the statement. Hint: there weren't any. Nobody disputed the facts, not even the ALP.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #103 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:21am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 17^th, 2016 at 12:56am:

It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were

36 ALP delegates

deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of

36 unelected, unknown unionists.

How did 36 ALP delegates turn into 36 unknown Unionists? Grin

What were these journalists smoking at the time?

Longmania going down at four o'clock... in flames... no chutes... someone'll be writing letters to parents....

You have to wonder about them when the best they can do is to re run a 1963 election ploy.

DNA, are you one of those crazy-lefties that chooses to say that this event didn't happen? or is your integrity enough to accept that it did happen exactly as reported?

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #104 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 8:24am

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:23pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:11pm:

This kind of response is symptomatic of your extreme bias and mental imbalance. Facts are facts - even when inconvenient. Or at least they are to intelligent, sane people.

That rules you out then. Your desperation to deflect inconvenient facts is getting quite hilarious. Grin

So Bam, do you yet believe that in 1963, the ALP had 36 unionist deciding on policy and no one from the parliament? or is this extraordinary level of undue influence just a figment of imagination from the 11 million people alive at the time?

You really are making it very easy to derail you when you reject proven facts because they make you cry in shame (as they should).

And again you post personal attacks and irrelevancies because you have utterly failed to come up with any response to the Liberal party's involvement with the Calabrian Mafia. I asked you about the Liberal party's involvement with the Calabrian Mafia. Several times. You have refused each time.

Why do you condone the Liberals' taking of this tainted money? By refusing to denounce it, you are condoning it.

It seems that you want the current system of donations to remain in place so your Liberal party can keep taking donations from organised crime figures.

I want the system changed so this sort of donation is no longer possible. I do not care particularly which party is affected. Our political system must not only be free of corruption, it must be seen to be free of corruption. That is not currently the case.

Do you want to retain a system of political donations that allow people involved with organised crime to funnel donations to political parties? Discuss.

So, the Bam has spoken and as usual, it is to deflect. I was truly astonished and bemused by how you managed to claim the 36 Faceless Men incident was 'unproven'. That showed a level of desperation that was astonishing even for you.

I await your response to the truth of the matter.

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