Australian Politics Forum - Time to overhaul political donations

Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #30 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:31pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:30pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 1:03pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.
Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign?

The current system is riddled with "donations" in exchange for "favours". The most dubious conduct in the past 15 years involved donations from the Calabrian Mafia, when Vanstone gave favours to them to stop Mafia boss Madafferi being deported to Italy.
Quote:

In the lead-up to the 2004 election, Tony Madafferi organised a fundraiser for the Liberal party in Melbourne where Amanda Vanstone, who by then had replaced Ruddock as immigration minister, was speaking. He donated $15,000 to the Liberal party’s Millennium Forum at that event, Four Corners said.

In November 2005, Vanstone intervened in Frank Madafferi’s deportation case and had it overturned. She and other politicians involved in the decision stated it was prompted by humanitarian concerns for Madafferi’s family should he be deported, not any donations or lobbying efforts. A police report into the case found there was no suggestion that Vanstone had acted corruptly or inappropriately.

You do realise how small the amounts are for the pool of taxpayer-funded campaigns? $58 million. If we doubled that to $116 million, that would still work out to less than $2 per person per year.

Are you seriously whining about a tax impost of 4 cents a week?

Why am I not surprised about the complete lack of reference to union interference in govt and policy?

Why am I not surprised at your wilful turning a blind eye to the Calabrian Mafia's influence in Australian politics? Yet again it's pointed out to you, yet again you seem to ignore it.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #31 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:31pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:44pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:26pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.

Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign? Pay for it yourself.

I would prefer to pay for it knowing when these policy decisions are made its for the consumer and not for powerful constituencies , how can you say with any conviction this is the case when you have these companies and individuals donating huge sums to political parties . I am no illusion its not the government of the day running any country.

I think you forgot to include the over-powering influence of the unions on the ALP or does undue influence only matter when it is no the other side of the political divide?

I am struggling to see where you found Bias in my post.

They find Bias in the ABC - if your not with them you are against them, balanced comment is not with them.

Oh what irony is this? There is a thread here talking about the pro-liberal ABC bias regarding the NBN.

Seriously, a couple week's holiday with intelligent conversation with friends has made this place look even more like an insane asylum.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #32 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:31pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:57pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:26pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.

Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign? Pay for it yourself.

I would prefer to pay for it knowing when these policy decisions are made its for the consumer and not for powerful constituencies , how can you say with any conviction this is the case when you have these companies and individuals donating huge sums to political parties . I am no illusion its not the government of the day running any country.

I think you forgot to include the over-powering influence of the unions on the ALP or does undue influence only matter when it is no the other side of the political divide?

You don't think that banning all donations include unions for some reason ?

policy decisions are made its for the consumer and not for powerful constituencies

You think that Unions are excluded from this group ?

If you are willing to unequivocally include unions in that, then fine. But you are happy for unions to donate to the ALP, right? You don't think that comes with strings attached?

so , in other words you simply don't understand whats written in front of you? Grin

the call was to ban political donations .... no one mentioned any exceptions except for you. Cheesy

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #33 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:33pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 11:18pm:

If turncoat bans political donations even I'll vote for him ..... but he won't do it

Turnbull won't need your vote. If the ALP were starved entirely of union donations then they couldnt run an internet ad, nevermind a TV election campaign. I don't know why you are all so desperate to get rid of political donations since it will totally destroy any chance a new party has if getting started and make the ALP virtually unheard. Remember that the coalition gets nearly 35% more of the vote than the ALP which if funding were on a per-vote basis would mean the Libs would get far more funding.

A bright little labor-supporter (do they exist) would not want the end of political donations and anyone wanting a new party might as well throw the idea away entirely.

spoken like a true rusted on more on ..

Well, some things never change. It is still a coin-toss as to whether or not you understand a post. Just in case you missed it (and you did!), my post was about the disadvantage to the ALP of removing political donations. Maybe next time you will understand my post.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #34 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:34pm Unions, factions, companies , tom dick or harry , allpolitical donations, all
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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #35 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:31pm:

Oh what irony is this? There is a thread here talking about the pro-liberal ABC bias regarding the NBN

not sure why its a struggle for you

liberal supporters claim the ABC is biased to the left'

facts show the ABC is biased to the right.

not sure where the irony is ... he's presenting arguments from one side, your presenting arguments from the other. Did you think they were going to be the same argument? Or are you surprised that the left and right disagree on things?

you said something about intelligent conversations with your friends, but for that to be true, they had to be doing all the talking. Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #36 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:36pm

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:24pm:

You will find the same posters on these threads time and time again near on pleading for change, they're the ones that can look at it from impartial position and draw the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with a system where anybody who makes a contribution can buy themselves a favourable outcome.

That is a statement that needs some support and explanation. There are very few examples of governments giving unfair favour to a particular group because of donations. Sure, there are some and most are related to pro-union legislation and decisions. But we dont have a graft-riddled system like so many other countries. There is a good reason why we are considered one of the handful of least corrupt nations on the planet. This is one of them.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #37 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:36pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 15^th, 2016 at 11:18pm:

If turncoat bans political donations even I'll vote for him ..... but he won't do it

Turnbull won't need your vote. If the ALP were starved entirely of union donations then they couldnt run an internet ad, nevermind a TV election campaign. I don't know why you are all so desperate to get rid of political donations since it will totally destroy any chance a new party has if getting started and make the ALP virtually unheard. Remember that the coalition gets nearly 35% more of the vote than the ALP which if funding were on a per-vote basis would mean the Libs would get far more funding.

A bright little labor-supporter (do they exist) would not want the end of political donations and anyone wanting a new party might as well throw the idea away entirely.

spoken like a true rusted on more on ..

Well, some things never change. It is still a coin-toss as to whether or not you understand a post. Just in case you missed it (and you did!), my post was about the disadvantage to the ALP of removing political donations. Maybe next time you will understand my post.

you want to critique comprehension on this thread?

You understood the thread was about private/ corporate donations only ... how much more lack of understanding can you get? Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #38 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:37pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:32pm:

It was in the early hours of Friday, March 22, 1963 when Alan Reid was reporting on the ALP's Federal Conference. It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were 36 ALP delegates deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of 36 unelected, unknown unionists.
Little has changed since. You see, the Labor Party is the creation of unions and is jealously guarded as the political arm of power-brokers. Those who do well within the union structure are rewarded with one of many inner-suburban "safe" seats. Until recently a Labor Prime Minister was unable to even choose his Ministers.

1963? Bahaha! Grin

How many of those people are still in politics? NONE.
How many are even still alive? Very few, if any; almost certainly NONE. Whitlam died in 2014, Calwell in 1973.
Does the ALP still have this structure? NO.
Relevance to modern politics? NONE.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #39 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:38pm Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:34pm: Unions, factions, companies , tom dick or harry , allpolitical donations, all A simple point entirely lost on some.
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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #40 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:38pm

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:28pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:26pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.

Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign? Pay for it yourself.

I would prefer to pay for it knowing when these policy decisions are made its for the consumer and not for powerful constituencies , how can you say with any conviction this is the case when you have these companies and individuals donating huge sums to political parties . I am no illusion its not the government of the day running any country.

I think you forgot to include the over-powering influence of the unions on the ALP or does undue influence only matter when it is no the other side of the political divide?

If I were you, I would be worrying more about the undue influence of the Calabrian Mafia on the Liberal party and finding constructive ways of ending it.

Good to see that you one eye is still working, firmly pointed anywhere other than where your blind eye is looking. You are hopelessly partisan and biased. Just can't see fault in unions or the ALP.

Well fortunately, the polls tell us that your beloved - albeit it corrupt and incompetent - will remain in opposition, probably for another few terms.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #41 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:39pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:36pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:24pm:

You will find the same posters on these threads time and time again near on pleading for change, they're the ones that can look at it from impartial position and draw the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with a system where anybody who makes a contribution can buy themselves a favourable outcome.

That is a statement that needs some support and explanation. There are very few examples of governments giving unfair favour to a particular group because of donations. Sure, there are some and most are related to pro-union legislation and decisions. But we dont have a graft-riddled system like so many other countries. There is a good reason why we are considered one of the handful of least corrupt nations on the planet. This is one of them.

bulls1t

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #42 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:40pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:36pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:24pm:

You will find the same posters on these threads time and time again near on pleading for change, they're the ones that can look at it from impartial position and draw the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with a system where anybody who makes a contribution can buy themselves a favourable outcome.

That is a statement that needs some support and explanation. There are very few examples of governments giving unfair favour to a particular group because of donations. Sure, there are some and most are related to pro-union legislation and decisions. But we dont have a graft-riddled system like so many other countries. There is a good reason why we are considered one of the handful of least corrupt nations on the planet. This is one of them.

And again you ignore the fact that the Calabrian Mafia was raising funds for the Liberals in 2004. The MAFIA. Why do you keep ignoring this?

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #43 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:46pm

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:31pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:30pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 1:03pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.
Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign?

The current system is riddled with "donations" in exchange for "favours". The most dubious conduct in the past 15 years involved donations from the Calabrian Mafia, when Vanstone gave favours to them to stop Mafia boss Madafferi being deported to Italy.
Quote:

In the lead-up to the 2004 election, Tony Madafferi organised a fundraiser for the Liberal party in Melbourne where Amanda Vanstone, who by then had replaced Ruddock as immigration minister, was speaking. He donated $15,000 to the Liberal party’s Millennium Forum at that event, Four Corners said.

In November 2005, Vanstone intervened in Frank Madafferi’s deportation case and had it overturned. She and other politicians involved in the decision stated it was prompted by humanitarian concerns for Madafferi’s family should he be deported, not any donations or lobbying efforts. A police report into the case found there was no suggestion that Vanstone had acted corruptly or inappropriately.

You do realise how small the amounts are for the pool of taxpayer-funded campaigns? $58 million. If we doubled that to $116 million, that would still work out to less than $2 per person per year.

Are you seriously whining about a tax impost of 4 cents a week?

Why am I not surprised about the complete lack of reference to union interference in govt and policy?

Why am I not surprised at your wilful turning a blind eye to the Calabrian Mafia's influence in Australian politics? Yet again it's pointed out to you, yet again you seem to ignore it.

Why am I not surprised at you rabbiting on like an angry, unwashed, professional protester about an incident (unproven) from over ten years ago? Why are you not commenting on today's union-based undue influence?

The answer is obvious.

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #44 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:49pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:38pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:28pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:26pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:34pm:

macman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:30am:

'I don't care as long as the tax-payer doesn't have to pay for it'.

Exactly the right wing attitude that fosters the corrupt ' brown paper bag' thinking in the liberal party.

Why should my tax pay for anyone's election campaign? Pay for it yourself.

I would prefer to pay for it knowing when these policy decisions are made its for the consumer and not for powerful constituencies , how can you say with any conviction this is the case when you have these companies and individuals donating huge sums to political parties . I am no illusion its not the government of the day running any country.

I think you forgot to include the over-powering influence of the unions on the ALP or does undue influence only matter when it is no the other side of the political divide?

If I were you, I would be worrying more about the undue influence of the Calabrian Mafia on the Liberal party and finding constructive ways of ending it.

Good to see that you one eye is still working, firmly pointed anywhere other than where your blind eye is looking. You are hopelessly partisan and biased. Just can't see fault in unions or the ALP.

Well fortunately, the polls tell us that your beloved - albeit it corrupt and incompetent - will remain in opposition, probably for another few terms.

Ad hominem, hypocrisy, outright lies and irrelevancies, all in the space of two short and barely-coherent paragraphs.

You sure are desperate not to discuss the links of the Calabrian Mafia with the Liberals. Why won't you discuss this?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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